Ogg Bug in Black Shark Ka50 (v1.02)?

[Zolitnitsky]

Is there a duration limitation to ogg files?

 

I've been trying out two music files as response to triggers in the mission editor; one is well over 5 min, the other slightly under. Both worked in wav format but, obviously takes forever to load.

 

In ogg format the shorter one worked but not the longer one, despite same conversion (44,1kHz, 16bit, 128kbps). So I tried different decoders (Sound Forge, Audition, Super) and waaaay too many different settings (down to 4bit, 45 kpbs mono!) and formats (vorbis 1.0/1.1)! It's obviously not the size of the file!

 

So I cut the file in half - and there we go! I also tried cutting just the end of the file but then it went quiet again, if it had some sort of corrupt data or something. Now I don't know if the duration is the problem as I've only tested these two files. But the only other possibilities I could think of were clipping or pauses in the music (as the larger file had some of).

 

Also, for some reason the "SOUND" action in the editor didn't work (another bug perhaps?) so I used the "COALITION SND" instead. Well, just mentioning it in case there's a difference in behavior between the two.

Edited April 15, 2012 by Zolitnitsky

[Nate--IRL--]

Could you attach those ogg files and the mission?

 

Nate

[Zolitnitsky]

Could you attach those ogg files and the mission?

 

Nate

 

Thanks! H:huh:w do I attach ogg files? They might be to big.

[Nate--IRL--]

Hmm maybe try zipping them I think there is a 5mb limit on zips. Failing that upload to mediafire or similar.

 

Nate

[Zolitnitsky]

Too big files - 8mb and 5mb.

 

The mission uses around 15-20 units including structures so I don't think I've overworked it that way.

[Zolitnitsky]

Ok here are the ogg files (sorry for a wait before DL, its a free service !)

 

http://bayfiles.com/file/7QFp/2rp8WO/Afterlife5.ogg

http://bayfiles.com/file/7QDX/oQqWQ5/Gravity.ogg

http://bayfiles.com/file/7QEX/IQpjSz/Gravity-cut.ogg

 

The third one is the large file but cut, hence working!

[Nate--IRL--]

Gravity OGG works for me. Odd.

 

See track

Ogg.rar

[Zolitnitsky]

Gravity OGG works for me. Odd.

 

See track

 

Yes indeed. I tested your file and it sounds for a while, then I don't know if it's a crash or if you chosed to stop there but it's followed by four error messages. I've included them in the rar file below together with a small mission file.

 

http://bayfiles.com/file/7SdN/IiZOs0/OggPart2.rar

 

The mission is not the one mentioned above but it has the same problems. Now I got the ogg file acctually to work there, playing from start to end, after changing the sample rate from 44 to 48, as this seems to be my only setting for my soundcard (I still think it's strange the game plays half the file if it has 44kHz!). And I have to use "player" as pilot. Replacing it with any other unit won't work (in the trigger zone). And any sound in any form to "MISSION START" still doesn't either. :cry:!

[Nate--IRL--]

Wait - what version of DCS are you flying?

 

Nate

[Zolitnitsky]

Wait - what version of DCS are you flying?

 

Nate

 

 

Read the headline! :smartass::thumbup: ! (It's V1.02)

[Nate--IRL--]

I missed that :)

 

I'll check it again so.

 

EDIT:- I'm out of activations for BS1 - I'll check it tomorrow.

 

Nate

Edited April 15, 2012 by Nate--IRL--

[Zolitnitsky]

I missed that :)

 

I'll check it again so.

 

EDIT:- I'm out of activations for BS1 - I'll check it tomorrow.

 

Nate

 

 

Oki, np !

 

Just as additinal info I'm using WinXP SP3 on an i5 @2.66.

[Speed]

Use a better audio converter :)

 

Part of your problem is that you're using .ogg, when .wav using the GSM 6.10 codec can in fact be a lot smaller.

 

Here's your Gravity.ogg, remade into 2.22 MB .wav file:

 

It could be made less than half again this size, in fact, but it wouldn't sound very good.

 

Edit: actually, it's not that bad, here's the 1.11 MB .wav file.

 

Edit 2: Actually with all the base, your file doesn't sound too much more awful than it already is ( :P ) all the way down at a 8000 Hz sample rate using GSM 6.10, and now, it's only 826 kB.

 

Lesson of the day:

 

.OGG IS TEH MAJOR SUCK. .WAV IS DOMINATE!

Gravity.zip

Gravity_1.zip

Gravity_2.zip

Edited April 16, 2012 by Speed

[Nate--IRL--]

Yep - just checked in BS1 Gravity ogg in BS1 - works ok - see attached mission, music starts after 10-15 seconds.

 

Nate

OGG.rar

[Zolitnitsky]

Conclusion?

 

Use a better audio converter :)

 

Part of your problem is that you're using .ogg, when .wav using the GSM 6.10 codec can in fact be a lot smaller.

 

Lesson of the day: OGG IS TEH MAJOR SUCK. .WAV IS DOMINATE!

 

Thank you, but I think low quality wav files - in mono :blink: - is not perhaps the ideal for music tracks. They might be useful for speech and some mono effects though. And although professional programs sometimes are known for not always be the best of converters (After Effects/Premiere for movies etc) I feel fully confident in Sound Forge and Audition in this matter (yes, I do have GSM 6.10). :thumbup:

 

Yep - just checked in BS1 Gravity ogg in BS1 - works ok - see attached mission, music starts after 10-15 seconds.

 

Nate

 

Yes, I tested it and it plays (however, it being a miz file it only shows the map without the fancy landscape flying :lol::thumbup:). No pun intended. Thanks!

 

Oh, man have I been struggling with this issue! Now I think I finally know the source of the matter - emphasizing on "think".

 

I rebuilt my original mission from scratch, gradually adding units and testing. And to my surprise the long track kept playing regardless of the amount of units (about 40 in total, including structures) as I thought this, or a specific unit, in a specific place, in a specific way, in a specific...:wallbash::wallbash::crash: yeah, you get the picture - was the problem. Or maybe this was a temporary corrupt mission file - it was not.

 

It' a seems to be a sort of conflict with having a skin (or at least my skin) in the TempTexture folder. It was eventually the only thing that differed the two missions. If I chose another default skin in the editor (not "standard" as that's what's being replaced) the longer ogg file plays - in both the original and the rebuilt mission!! And in reverse manner stops when "standard" (my) skin is used, again in both missions. Add to this that the shorter file will however play regardless of skin! So it also seems to be a combination of duration of ogg files/amount of units and eeum.... my skin in the TempTexture folder! :doh::lol: !!!

Edited April 17, 2012 by Zolitnitsky

[Nate--IRL--]

Well that's odd - it could be DCS managing its memory footprint. Glad you figured it out.

 

Nate

[Speed]

Thank you, but I think low quality wav files - in mono :blink: - is not perhaps the ideal for music tracks. They might be useful for speech and some mono effects though. And although professional programs sometimes are known for not always be the best of converters (After Effects/Premiere for movies etc) I feel fully confident in Sound Forge and Audition in this matter (yes, I do have GSM 6.10). :thumbup:

 

This might be true if you weren't playing the music in the middle of flying an aircraft, with loud engine noises in your ears, and if you had unlimited bandwidth. Just FYI, almost everyone downloading the mission will vastly prefer the 5X-10X smaller file size over an imperceptible (or nearly so) decrease in sound quality. Honestly, to my ears, engine noise masks almost all differences between GSM 6.10 @ 22kHz sample rate (35kb/s bit rate) and high quality sound. Even at GSM 6.10 @ 11kHz sample rate (so like, 17kb/s), the difference for some sound tracks isn't very noticeable once in the pit.

 

Perhaps you have a more discerning auditory system than me, but I'm probably pretty average in that regard, and if you are making your missions for public "consumption", then it's probably a good idea to make them for folks with average hearing :)

Edited April 18, 2012 by Speed

[Zolitnitsky]

This might be true if you weren't playing the music in the middle of flying an aircraft, with loud engine noises in your ears [...] Honestly, to my ears, engine noise masks almost all differences between GSM 6.10 @ 22kHz sample rate (35kb/s bit rate) and high quality sound. Even at GSM 6.10 @ 11kHz sample rate (so like, 17kb/s), the difference for some sound tracks isn't very noticeable once in the pit.

 

Perhaps, assuming you have not chosen to limit that loud, environmentally hazardous engine noise by some tweaking to a more pleasant (unrealistic if you will - I prefer futuristic) level.

 

Perhaps you have a more discerning auditory system than me, but I'm probably pretty average in that regard, and if you are making your missions for public "consumption", then it's probably a good idea to make them for folks with average hearing [...] , and if you had unlimited bandwidth. Just FYI, almost everyone downloading the mission will vastly prefer the 5X-10X smaller file size over an imperceptible (or nearly so) decrease in sound quality.

 

Quite true, relatively speaking I guess I'm a bit of an audiophile then. And certainly, If I were to make it a public mission I would have to be more considerate. This was however merely a test mission with the somewhat limitations of sound engine in mind.

 

What I mean by that is however good intentions of realism the game has, and however well the other aspects of the sound engine is, I still wouldn't expect to have to resort to 35kB/s mono files for some (optional) music in this modern type of computer game in the year of our lord 2008! (as my vs is v1.02)! And the funny thing is that in almost any other game I'd prefer less - if at all -music!

 

 

Nevertheless,

as I'm just about giving up, the game obviously can't handle more the two or three tracks of longer nature in a mission, and the longer (not bigger) they are the bigger the chance is they won't play to my experience - unless they are mono! If you add units then you'd probably have to reduce it further. It still may be a workaround there somewhere but so far the combinations and formats I've tried doesn't give any certain conclusion. Removing any temp skin in the TempTexture folder "helps" but does not solve the problem.

 

http://bayfiles.com/file/8uDr/yyXSlS/MusicTestMission-BSv1.02.zip

 

Above I've uploaded a test mission with five (oh,my!) music tracks in it, along a route with triggers, and without much units (only friendlies) for anyone that might want to try further (you might need to speed the time up in it). I've also included the converted tracks separately in the different formats I've tested; OGG (Optimized in 45kB/s, very close to gsm in size), GSM v6.10 and IMA ADPCM, which is wav-format larger than GSM but lower than uncompressed. The music in the mission file is in ogg. I've aslo tested different templates for the wav-format, including ogg and mp3. Most of them won't play. All in 48kz.

 

It would also be good to know if this persists in BS 2.0.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Zolitnitsky