ErichVon Posted May 6, 2012 Posted May 6, 2012 What I like about online aerial combat is real people THIMK. LOL! Wanted to see if you caught the intentional mispelling (misspelling). People are not very predictable, well some are, gaming psychology and all that. ============================ I would like to see an AI guy fight back, having the potential of killing me instead of just being a drone. ============================ Hey, the SAM missiles kill pretty good; I cannot even bailout, dead instantly. Is this attainable to DCS? Especially with the P-51?
leafer Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Err. I object! The AI driving this P-51 with German pain is pretty deadly here. :D I set him to average skill with tank maxed out while mine is sloshing 50%, and he would gum on bum me 90% of time. The two times, 2 out of 1-1/2 hrs of non stop hair-pulling dog fight, when I was getting the upper hand and needing just one.. more... turn....!!...the g-lock kicking in, my vision dimming, I was bloodlust!!! smack! ...he dove into the ground - twice! probably from boredom. ERRGH! I wish I have your problem or skills. edit.. yeah, SAMs = fun stop. Edited May 7, 2012 by leafer ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
Wichid Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I've had a couple of head on passes with average AI and they have turned around and killed me in seconds. Lyndiman AMD Ryzen 3600 / RTX 2070 Super / 32G Ram / Win10 / TrackIR 5 Pro / Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS & MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals
leafer Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Yup. I have a feeling TIR will be a heap of help in a dog fight. I don't use padlock as it's confusing so I pan with mouse. It's extra work but I've since managed to get on the AI bum. ED have been taking my money since 1995. :P
flightace37 Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 There's no feeling about it, leafer. Some kind of head tracker is the most important piece of flight sim equipment you should acquire, besides a decent joystick. I do all kinds of things during a dogfight that involve head movement. I watch the target, I watch all around me for bogeys, I move my head to look around obstructions in the cockpit to see better, and I check a number of instruments for combat-critical information. All this happens within about a 5 second scan pattern, though most of my attention is on the target, depending on conditions. Lose sight, lose fight. Head tracking also frees up a hat switch to use for trim, which is extremely important in this aircraft, both in and out of combat. Anyway, that was a little off topic. Regarding the AI, I've actually found that they behave rather simply. They're just really good at pushing the aircraft right to its physical limits. If you set up a mission in the editor with two Excellent AI Mustangs in a head-on, co-alt, co-speed pass, you'll find that all they manage to do is keep swinging around at each other for another head-on. They rarely get shots off because they have to break immediately to avoid colliding, thus setting up for the next pass. Observing their turning behavior, it becomes fairly obvious that all they care about is getting the nose around on their opponent to set up a shot. They do examine velocity vector and fly to your future position rather than directly at your aircraft, and this is why they are so difficult to deal with at first. The truth is, all they do is roll their lift vector to turn to your future position as quickly as possible and pull, so long as they have energy to permit it. If not, they compromise with a gentler turn, or less use of the vertical. They do seem to have an understanding of maneuvering speed, and they may or may not choose nose-high or nose-low accordingly. The AI doesn't seem to understand the concepts of pursuit curves, or the intricacies of some of the more complex maneuvers like flat/rolling scissors, defensive spiral, and yo-yos. They manage to approximate yo-yo and rope-a-dope maneuvers in the way they bring their nose around on you, but it is done with very little respect for your intentions. That isn't to say they're not difficult to fight. They really are able to push their airframes, and that can make a world of difference, but they are definitely predictable. I'd be happy to hear that the AI is more complex than this. How am I batting? - WH_Mouse
ARM505 Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 Sounds like you have it right to me at least. That's the problem I guess - the AI doesn't actually show human intelligence (thinking strategy, different BFM), it is so obviously a machine (able to pull to inhumanly close to the limit at ALL times, machine like pursuit of single parameter, always able to see you etc) It's just a pity it's so bloody effective! In all the dogfights I've had with the AI, I end up getting hits only during the head on passes. Getting them into a typical 'human' losing situation (ie low, slow, out of everthing, or 'just didn't see you') seems incredibly hard/impossible, or at least I haven't succeeded to my satisfaction. Bottom line is, it's VERY clear you're fighting an AI. Still a bloody difficult fight of course, just not so satisfying, to me at least. I guess that's what online is for.
Double_D Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 known issue with AI...they are re-designing the calculations between AI and human..flights calculations... [TABLE][/url][sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic89949_15.gif[/sIGPIC][/Table] Recruiting for Aerobatic Team/Fighter Group... My Youtube channel
flightace37 Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 known issue with AI...they are re-designing the calculations between AI and human..flights calculations... Of course. I was hoping that a psycho-analysis of AI behavior would help ED make improvements, should it be part of their mission goals. As stated by several others, the AI is quite effective as is; it's just predictable. - WH_Mouse
ErichVon Posted May 7, 2012 Author Posted May 7, 2012 (edited) Sounds like you have it right to me at least. That's the problem I guess - the AI doesn't actually show human intelligence (thinking strategy, different BFM), it is so obviously a machine (able to pull to inhumanly close to the limit at ALL times, machine like pursuit of single parameter, always able to see you etc) It's just a pity it's so bloody effective! In all the dogfights I've had with the AI, I end up getting hits only during the head on passes. Getting them into a typical 'human' losing situation (ie low, slow, out of everthing, or 'just didn't see you') seems incredibly hard/impossible, or at least I haven't succeeded to my satisfaction. Bottom line is, it's VERY clear you're fighting an AI. Still a bloody difficult fight of course, just not so satisfying, to me at least. I guess that's what online is for. Make no mistake, on the defensive the AI are good. But I stay on their six and chop throttle a lot not to overshoot. I have not played with the editor, yet, to setup a scenario. Maybe the AI function differently in a pre-configured setup. I prefer not to attack on the HO (head-on) if fighting a real person. To me, that is bad sim, online ethics. After the 1st pass, all is fair, and no whining about it from either contestant when things go bad. I will run to get separation, but I will be back... Edited May 7, 2012 by ErichVon
ErichVon Posted May 7, 2012 Author Posted May 7, 2012 known issue with AI...they are re-designing the calculations between AI and human..flights calculations... I'm looking for a good, active squad to fly this thing with.
Pikey Posted May 7, 2012 Posted May 7, 2012 I like humans though for the crazy or stupid stuff they can do though. AI tends to be on a level, at least not to do really silly things...they don't often break off for an easier target or run, or pull you out of position for that otherr...r..BANG. ___________________________________________________________________________ SIMPLE SCENERY SAVING * SIMPLE GROUP SAVING * SIMPLE STATIC SAVING *
ErichVon Posted May 7, 2012 Author Posted May 7, 2012 I like humans though for the crazy or stupid stuff they can do though. AI tends to be on a level, at least not to do really silly things...they don't often break off for an easier target or run, or pull you out of position for that otherr...r..BANG. Yes, people make mistakes. A good opponent (real human) allows them one mistake and that ends their day.
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