SU-25 target acquisition

[Raulo]

Hello, first of all I want to congratulate the developer team for making a free perfect simulator.

 

And now for the topic, I'm having a great time playing the free SU-25 aircraft (I'm a pilot in real life too, not combat pilot tho). I have learned so far how to use the majority of the weapons available to use.

 

However, I have a really hard time finding the targets, I can barely see them while I'm flying, is there any GPS or Radar system so I can find them more easily ? I tried navigation system, but it ruins the game because now whenever I lock a target with the TV thing, it does something weird (that red box thing) and I don't want it at all. I tried labels too, but I really don't like them at all, they are long and all the simulation thing goes ruined.

 

I'm looking for something to actually see the targets but not ruining my game with the lock-on system. Maybe there is a feature to deactivate it while having the radar on ? Maybe some option to spot vehicles and aircrafts but more simple than labels.

 

Another thing that comes to my mind right now (I don't want to start a new thread just to ask this) sometimes I start from the hangar, and I feel that somebody has to tow you out of it. Is there any option to do that ? If the answer is yes, please tell me how.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Excuse the mistakes (If there are any)

[marcos]

You have to turn on the APU, start the engine, taxi out of the hangar to the runway and take off.

 

Aquiring targets is tricky, you should use the Shkval and zoom. Unhiding targets using the mission editor will help if you want to make it easier. You can then use the map.

[arteedecco]

I'm a pilot in real life too, not combat pilot tho

Cool! Adds a whole new depth to the game doesn't it!?

 

...

 

However, I have a really hard time finding the targets, I can barely see them while I'm flying, is there any GPS or Radar system so I can find them more easily ? I tried navigation system, but it ruins the game because now whenever I lock a target with the TV thing, it does something weird (that red box thing) and I don't want it at all. I tried labels too, but I really don't like them at all, they are long and all the simulation thing goes ruined.

 

I'm looking for something to actually see the targets but not ruining my game with the lock-on system. Maybe there is a feature to deactivate it while having the radar on ? Maybe some option to spot vehicles and aircrafts but more simple than labels.

 

...

Yeah, I've noticed the same problem finding targets in the Su-25T.

 

Some ideas.

 

You can (in the game Options) switch from simulation to "Game" mode, which is described in the very beginning of the Su-25T Flight Manual that is installed with DCS World. It makes it a little more like an "arcade" game, but it is one possible solution.

 

You can search the forum on how to edit labels so they are a darker color and only a "." or something much smaller than the full description of the vehicle, so it is not as invasive in the game (I also like to just play more "realistically" and don't like using things like labels).

 

Have you updated your game to 1.2.2 and done the auto-updates after installing that version? They have been making lots of fixes / updates / tweaks.

 

If you fly with a wingman, any vehicle they spot will show up as a diamond in your HUD (so I have read, but have not yet confirmed myself).

 

Really... the built-in (in the nose of the aircraft) "Shkval" TV targeting system is THE way to detect and ID targets. Here is a quote from page 61 of the Su-25T Flight Manual:

 

To detect and identify targets, you must turn on the "Shkval" TV targeting system by pressing the [O] key, or the "Mercury" system by pressing the [RCtrl-O] key.

 

Remember, the Su-25T in DCS World is an FC model, so it has waaaaayyyy less "fidelity" and detail than the DCS A-10C Module you can purchase (if you haven't already).

 

The Su-25T has a much less sophisticated avionics package than the A-10C and the targeting is one of the primary limitations. A lot of its systems are "automated" as well because it is a Flaming Cliffs port and has not been given all the dev time and effort of the amazing DCS A-10C.

 

In general, the way it works in the Su-25T is your waypoints are set over your targets, so when you are ingressing to a waypoint you know to start searching with eyeballs and with your Shkval TV [O]. Remember you "stabilize" the Shkval camera by pressing "Enter" [RETURN] and slew the seeker around using "," "." "/" ";" keys. Once you slew the seeker over a target it will lock up, so long as you have the correct target size set (default is 10m which is ideal for most ground vehicles). Read the Flight Manual for more details.

 

That's really it. Otherwise you have to use your RWR, see the enemy shooting at you, look for target diamonds designated by your wingman, use the F10 map if available (mission designers can make this unavailable during mission design).

 

Remember, to go into ground attack mode, press [7] and then press [D] to cycle between weapons and hardpoints. To engage the laser for laser guided munitions, press [RShift+O] and remember to TURN off the laser after using it, so it doesn't burn up basically. Some have said the laser is turned on/off automatically, but I have not tried that much yet. So far I have not seen it work that way. Also, to engage the weapons override (allows you to shoot two Vikhr anti-tank rounds simultaneously) press [LAlt + W]. It may allow other things as well, but I'm not sure exactly what yet.

 

So yeah... the Su-25T is a whole different "ballgame" than the A-10C in terms of detecting, and acquiring targets. You essentially have to see them, see smoke, see them fire and then be facing them to target them with the TV targeting system. Sorry I don't have better news for ya!

 

Hope some of that helps you out. I will be trying the Su-25T in multiplayer mode soon to try to figure some of this out better.

 

Cheers! Happy flying! :pilotfly:

[Krebs20]

Try adding an AI aircraft with smoke rockets. They will mark targets for you to destroy.

[arteedecco]

Good to know!

 

1. Any other suggestions on how to find targets in a multi-player environment where you may not have AI to find targets?

 

2. Can you interact with JTAC if you're flying the Su-25T? If "yes", will the JTAC give you WP? -- Do JTACs know not to give Su-25Ts data linked targets?

-- Do JTACs know to use WP instead of coordinates only with Su-25Ts?

 

Thanks for the clarification!

[PE_Tigar]

1. Try and ascertain approximately where the target will be, then look for the targets with Shkval. If there's some ground action going on, look for muzzle flashes, dust from moving vehicles, smoke and fire from burning vehicles... that sort of thing.

 

2. Nope, unfortunately.

[Weta43]

If you read this from start to finish, it maybe mentions that the mod to get JTAC working with the Ka-50 can be applied to the Su-25T also (though I'm not sure how the radios would work, I just have a vague idea I remember reading something about it, but I might be well wrong, and I'm not up to reading the 11 pages to find out)

Don't howl if I'm wrong ...

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=93228&page=11

[arteedecco]

So... I have been thinking about this dilema more lately. I've also been watching a lot of vids of Su-25T in action (though the aircraft type really doesn't matter for this particular point).

 

What I notice is that...

A. In RL it is not about how much ordinance you lay down... I mean... it is, but there is a MUCH higher value placed on surviving engagements, so you see loadouts that allow for good aircraft control and maneuverability, rather than... the typical SIM loadouts where you fill every dang pylon with 110% of whatever it can handle.

 

B. Most engagements are rocket attacks against an invisible enemy... troops firing from trees... in most of the vids you don't see a target, yet stuff is burning afterwards, which means that there was a FAC or something to alert the Su-25 pilots as to where the threat was...

 

C. In RL, they don't fly into areas with thick AA threats like we do so often in the SIM... in the SIM we find that we are often taking on every single possible threat simultaneously on every mission (or at least they are present and have to be worried over). In RL there are limits to the number and placement of enemy assets, so you won't necessarily have 4 enemy aircraft flying around, SA-11 batteries, MANPAD all over, Shilka, Tunguska, etc every time. But... you want to have a target rich environment for your pilots and you want it to be challenging for them even if they spawn into the multiplayer game after it's been running for an hour or so... catch 22. That's why I would love it if DCSW worked on getting the ability to spawn units after mission load.

 

D. Weapon accuracy on unguided munitions is not very good. You watch the vids and you see that rocket attacks hit an area but the nose of the aircraft is wandering around and the rockets hit within an "area" rather than a pinpoint strike ,but...

 

E. (my main point) the effect of rocket explosions is much much more significant that what is modeled in DCSW. The smoke from the explosions lingers longer, billows more, and is just visually more obvious than what I see in DCSW... thereby making it more difficult to locate a target area after a strike. Yes, the smoke from burning wrecks seems to last, but it is generally uniform and fairly non-descript.

 

Regarding my point on E... it seems like more could be done to the explosive, burning effects to make them more visually predominant (even if a target wasn't hit... it seems like trees, grass, environment would burn and smolder).

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 14, 2012 by arteedecco