Are GBU-12's a little bit underpowered?

[Ebs]

Hi all,

 

I'm not one for complaining about weapons data (given that what I know about weapons could be printed on the back of a postage stamp) but to me the GBU-12 warhead seems very weak.

 

Last week, I played a Dragon mission online where one objective was to destroy a hind on a runway. I landed a GBU-12 within 10m of the stationary hind and the hind just shrugged off the explosion. It didn't appear to be damaged at all.

 

Granted, a direct hit with a GBU-12 will take out almost anything but there's hardly any splash damage. With this in mind I set up a little testing mission with a fair number of targets at an airbase...

 

 

I set my impact point to be between the two choppers. In the screenshot you can see the 'crater' left behind from the first gbu-12 (that's a crater from a 500lb bomb (?)) The first bomb disabled the choppers...I expected more damage to be honest!

 

 

The is the second group of targets on the runway. A direct hit to the truck....

 

 

But what happened to the other trucks that were right next to the blast? THEY DROVE AWAY

 

Like I said, maybe it's just me. My weapons knowledge comes from Schwarzenegger movies but shouldn't the splash damage be a *bit* more effective?...

 

 

Cheers,

Ebs.

[Eddie]

Fragmentation is not currently simulated, but the blast effect of weapons has been tweaked to somewhat allow for the frag effects.

 

Apart from specific fragmentation damage to soft skinned targets (which vehicle and aircraft damage models don't allow for anyway at present) the current modelling of the GBU-12/Mk-82/GBU-38 and all other weapons is pretty damn close.

 

The other factors not accounted for is the type of surface on which the bomb impacts (rock vs sand etc.), and the various fusing types (Instantaneous/air burst/delay), both of these have a large impact on the blast and frag effects.

 

Remember, these things are regularly dropped within 100 meters of friendly forces in Afghanistan by CAS aircraft. Most people grossly over estimate the blast effects of weapons because, as you indicated, the only source of info they have is movies & TV. Neither of which are good sources.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Eddie

[danilop]

There is not that much blast damage from Mk82 (the same warhead as in GBU-12) - you can expect that your average military truck will survive if bomb hit beyond 10-15m radius - so it is simulated well in DCS. For infantry that's about 50-75m (and that's optimistic).

Edited December 30, 2012 by danilop

[Ebs]

Thanks for the replies guys. I had a feeling I was overestimating a bit too much!

 

Eddie I realise you're a tester but it appears that there is indeed some form of fragmentation going on in the sim. Together with variables that deal with type of surface impact (only concrete or not concrete at the moment, but it's a start!)

 

function simple_warhead(power, caliber)

local res = {};

 

res.mass = power; --new explosion damage effect (explosive + fragments)

res.caliber = caliber

res.expl_mass = power*explosivePercent; --new explosion damage effect (explosive + fragments)

res.other_factors = {1, 1, 1};

res.obj_factors = {1, 1};

res.concrete_factors = {1, 1, 1};

res.cumulative_factor = 0;

res.concrete_obj_factor = 0.0;

res.cumulative_thickness = 0.0;

 

calcPiercingMass(res)

return res;

end

 

upping those 'factors' gives some interesting results ;)

 

danilop: I hadn't realised the blast radius was *that* small!

[BlueRidgeDx]

It appears that the "explosive effect" value represents both the blast and frag properties with a single value, which is what Eddie is saying. It's not possible to separate frag effects from blast effects, and in fact, frag isn't really simulated at all.

 

For instance a small explosive charge with lots of frag could theoretically have the same value as a larger explosive with no frag. To the DCS engine, it's all the same.