Azazel
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Posts posted by Azazel
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If DCS releases an F-16, or a third party does, it would fare very well for DCS provided it is all AFM. Aside from the lack of a Dynamic Campaign, having the Viper would create a storm of pilots anxiously awaiting to fly an F-16 in DCS World. It would motivate me to learn the mission editor a lot more. The Viper has been home to many of us for more than a decade and somehow DCS overlooked that by not creating a multi-role fighter yet and has failed to make an announcement. I would even settle for a no we are not and that is why we have this third party project. Lets face it the Falcon Simulator was it and I think it is time to get back to that.
There is a terrain project in the works for BMS, as far as I know it still active, referred to as FLARE. If that releases and DCS still has only the A-10 it will once again create tension between the two groups. I would love to see BMS do a VIPER for DCS. BMS is without a doubt the most advanced sim I have ever flown next to A-10C. Aside from the dumb flame war between DCS and BMS, BMS is top notch. I have a lot of experience with Naval aviation and BMS is solid and rivals many modern operational sims today. I would love to see a merge of these awesome developers.
In closing, I have some reservations about the AFM and SFM debate. I hope that DCS does not become muddied as FSX is right now. There are thousands of add on worthless planes out there for FSX.
In my opinion, any aircraft in DCS should be as advanced as allowed and should never be simplified. If a developer releases a simplified aircraft only for DCS, welcome to combat FSX.
Well said sir. I couldn't agree more.
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That doesn't matter. Originally we were supposed to get DCS: A-10A, but ED got a contract for the 10C. There is no real duplication if they make a DCS version of the F-15C. They would be two very different aircraft in certain ways.
Did you see the majority of the community asking for a Ka-50 or A-10C?
Sigh.... you win GG, you win. You'd make a great lawyer.
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Or an F-5. Or a MiG-28 :D
Anyway, seems like we're on the same page :)
I'd take an F-5 any day. I don't see the point in ED releasing F-15C in FC3 and then duplicating them selves with a DCS: F-15C. I also haven't seen the vast majority of the community asking for the F-15C either. Whatever ED releases I'll buy though (not like it's breaking the bank). :)
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Anyone tried this yet? What's the verdict? Yay or Nay?
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Just make it 2 seat flyable: with 2 multiplayer pilots and you fellas will have forfilled my dreams for this sim. After all it is a jet trainer :thumbup:
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Thats good to know. To be honest, I didn't even think that they might have to "reinvent the wheel" as it relates to weapons already simulated by ED. :D
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Guys,
All comments are welcome whether it be AI or real life and I respect everyone's opinion as I know you do too.
Sabre and others, you are quite right.
ACTS needs to be a mixture of levels of real life instruction.
My flight time and learning time is also limited and as a trainee I'd get bored of doing a course for 12 months because I can only fly for an hour a week. Hence why Rattler was asking what the learning times for each module are.
We need to keep this simplistic yet real.
As an example we can go through all the formulas for intercepts on lead and lag pursuit, or we can go through it simply by using the TAD, instruments and HUD symbology for the maths inept of us. Whether we have a "hardcore" mode or a "simple" mode or both is a fundamental question I guess. What are your thoughts on this?
This is the kind of thing that might be better left to the well organized virtual squadrons as opposed to you guys spending large amounts of time on developing (instead of working on the bird itself). Thats not to say you're spinning your wheels though. People new to flight sims and DCS could certainly make use of on an in depth initial flight training and fighter lead in school. Personally, I've been flying combat sims for 18 years now and while I enjoy learning how to be proficient in all the different areas of the jet, I don't need a script to learn to do them per say (the manual and youtube videos usually suffice). That being said, I still learn new things about the F-16/A-10C and their systems every time I fly BMS and DCS. I guess what I'm saying is I prefer learning tricks of the trade from others in my squadron. To be blunt, this sim really needs a go fast multirole jet on par with the fidelity of the A-10C and Blackshark. I'd prefer you guys focused on that instead of a flight training course. Just my two cents for what its worth.
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Anyone has a link to this "F-16 information" that is out there?
Here, I will start, here is a link to the Greek Block 50 -1 pilots manual
http://www.scribd.com/doc/26400980/F-16C-D-Flight-Manual
Keep in mind that;
- This is only relative to Greek block 50, circa 2001
- That this manual is incomplete without the GR1F-16CJ-1-1 and GR1F-16CJ-1-2
- This does not cover any of the avionics nor weapons delivery (GR1F-16CJ-34-1-1 and GR1F-16CJ-34-1-1-1) nor the plethora of systems if they are looking to model any of them.
For example:
Fuels ( GR1F-16CJ-2-28GS-00-1 ), Landing gear ( GR1F-16CJ-2-32GS-00-1), Starting system and Gearbox ( GR1F-16CJ-2-80GS-00-1), Flight control ( GR1F-16CJ-2-27GS-00-1), Engine ( GR1F-16CJ-2-70GS-00-11), Hydraulics ( GR1F-16CJ-2-29GS-00-1), Air conditioning ( GR1F-16CJ-2-21GS-00-1), communications ( GR1F-16CJ-2-23GS-00-1)
electrical power ( GR1F-16CJ-2-24GS-00-1), Fire protection ( GR1F-16CJ-2-26GS-00-1), Ice protection ( GR1F-16CJ-2-30GS-00-1), etc
And most of those manual would not help with AFM, for that we need weight and balance info (-5-1) DFLCS or FLCS logic (???) aerodynamic information and input from RL pilots.
Or where we suggesting to use youtube and wiki pages as sources?
F-16.net forums would be more qualified, as long as we are ok thrusting the word of stranger in a forums.
Ahh! Thanks, this post more or less answers my initial question on "what it takes to create an advanced flight model for the F-16?" My guess is the fellas over at BMS have some of what you've listed. I don't get the feeling they shoot from the hip, but I could be wrong. Thanks.
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Hi this thread its gone off topic a bit but its basically an F-16 FM request discussion.
If more than one variant can be made which wouldn't be that hard you have the base and calculations for one F-16 FM and adjust minor differences for others.
I'm no coder or dev but once you establish a base it should be fairly smooth and easy to have some variants F-16AM, F-16C, F-16i, F-16CD, F-16CJ or another way to put it is a Block 15 then just a Block 50/52 as an example
If F4 Devs can accomplish this certainly DCS can make the dream right, seriously these guys do it full-time and a bigger team than F4 teams.
This would be the same for other A/C's like F-4, F-14, F-15, F-18..... SU's..... Migs..... and so on
Well its just me thinking out loud anyway.
I'm still hoping for the best............................:thumbup:
Couldn't agree more. I'm completely of the opinion that if ED or a well respected and well known 3rd party builds an F-16 then "they will come..." To me (and this is just my limited observation) the thing this sim lacks the most is a modern multi-role fighter. The A-10C is great. I love it. But obviously, there are things it cannot do and I think the amount of information out there on the F-16 makes it a good place start for any group that wants to make a go fast jet that can do a variety of missions.
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Azazel,
Are you saying that in your mission you can detect in trigger logic when a group or unit is painted by a radar?
And, are you saying that a Client can be detected in trigger logic being painted by a radar?
WC
My work is not a mod (I don't know how to code at all). Yes I can detect when a unit is getting painted by a radar because there is a search radar handoff with the SAM radar on my RWR: S goes out and BB/15/2S6/17 comes up. Not sure if that is what you mean though?
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Afaik the desk top trainer that ED marketed to the air national guard didn't feature an AFM. It seems to be more of a switchology trainer, getting pilots used to the new MFCDS and HOTAS commands. The AFM, if I'm remembering correctly, came when they made the commercial product.
I think the latter part of your statement is the truth, a lot of complicated math and some extremely passionate and skilled devolpment=AFM.
...incidentally, the ANG trainer doesn't even seem to have a 3D pit...yuck :P
Ah, I was very wrong then and that's a relieve to know actually. Classified stuff killing my hobby always rubs me wrong. :)
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Azazel,
I will download it and check your triggers out. Will you give me a pointer to where in your trigger list I should look? Thanks.
WC
Haha, good news there. Pretty much all of them (and this is the small version of my SAM deck: I have a huge one that is more complex and covers all of the Russian side of the map (several hundred triggers)). Happy to talk you through it on TS. When the next DCS fighter comes out I'll be doing one for it too as it'll make much more sense/fun with a multirole flyable jet.
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Aye - I was the same with IRIS and RAZBAM :)
Yep, ED set the bar high with their work. At least they know what to aim for.
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What works? What is 'it' in your reply?
WC
The mission I made as it relates to the title of this thread.
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I don't know - they have confirmed that they will be posting an announcement sometime soon so we will just have to wait and see.
Hmm, I've never heard them... and I'll leave it at that. I doubt others will though. :music_whistling:
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There has already been an announcement of a pending F-16 development from a Community organisation, the VTAI.
Is ED on board with that though? Are they "sanctioned/approved" by ED?
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I'd like to make a poll on that very issue I guess (don't think I can though: privileges maybe?).
Here's how I see it fleshing out:
Who should make DCS: F-16C???
Option 1: Only ED can make the sacred Viper!
Option 2: BMS (or insert other 3rd party) should make the Viper!
Option 3: I will never stop flying F4 so I really don't care!
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If you are doing an F-16 then contact Mavjp from BMS and he could possibly help you make the FM AFM. He did the FM for BMS and it is more detailed than an Air Force F-16 sim FM.:thumbup:
Try the latest BMS and you'll see.
I don't even know how to code (in any language). BMS is great, my squadron is still flying it while we wait for the next DCS fighter. I asked the question because I really don't understand the code work effort that separates an AFM from an SFM. I'm inclined to believe its "secret stuff" that the Air Force gave ED about the A-10 that allowed them to create an AFM for that airframe. Which is why I feel like there are enough F-16 out there for the information to be in the public domain by now. Thats my theory. I could be wrong about several parts of it. The AFM might come down to lots of painful calculus and physics for all I know. I do agree though, if a 3rd party was to do DCS: F-16C instead of ED then it should be the fellas at BMS.
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At this stage, yes and no, depending on who you are referring to.
To quote:
I don't necessarily dislike the idea of a SFM, especially if a 3rd party's project graduates over time from a SFM to an AFM :smartass:
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There's been a lot of talk about AFM and SFM on the forums. I'm a big fan of the AFM in A-10c and I and about 90% of the community agree that we'd like to see more of the same fidelity. With the amount of countries flying the F-16C (and it's service life), it seems that an AFM would be possible. Am I wrong? And if so please tell me exactly what goes into make the flight model "advanced."
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Behold! D C S Choo Choo. I've never understood the appeal of train simulators but hey, different stokes for different folks. Thanks for the clarification on DCS Wags: this sim has a bright future 8)
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You'll be alright, just keep you're situational awareness up: pay attention to where you are on the TAD :D
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Mission updated above (forgot to remove an old test trigger). Should be good to go now.
DCS Combined Arms; will there be logistics?
in DCS: Combined Arms
Posted
Nate,
Could you sticky that fella in the mission builders corner. I'm sure there are plenty of people that could use it :)