doveman

Thanks for the warning. I was concerned that the speakers might make it too deep for my desk but I might want to use it in a proper cockpit sometime and hadn't thought about it hitting my knees. So I might be better off paying the extra £30 for the S2240T. It seems the specs I saw earlier were wrong, as the Dell website gives the height as http://www.dell.com/ed/business/p/dell-s2240t/pd 370mm, compared to the Hannspree's 408mm, which isn't as much difference as I'd have thought considering it's 22" vs 23" and doesn't have the speakers. That's with the stand though, so mounting it without that in a cockpit will obviously bring it down, whereas the Hannspree will still be 408mm. It does have 12ms response time though, which might be a problem, I'm not really sure. For another £30, the P2314T is better at 8ms, which might still be a bit much considering most tend to be 5ms or lower and is 348mm high without the stand and 413mm with it.

So I stuck my monitor on a box to raise it up and found that the highest I can practically use it is with the screen 23cm off the desk, which feels comfortable with the view like this, looking straight ahead at the HUD. It still sort of works with it higher but it's a bit uncomfortable because I'm having to look up. It's also too disorientating when looking down at the side panels for them to be so high up in relation to my head. What the actual seating position IRL is I obviously don't know (maybe someone has photos showing the normal position of the pilot's head in the various DCS aircraft?) but then the pilot has the seat cushioning his head, making it more comfortable to be constantly looking up a bit. One day I'll build my cockpit but whilst I'm using a deskpit I need to be able to look straight ahead or slightly down to be comfortable. These are perhaps a better/more realistic view position, higher up and looking down at the HUD, as it allows me to see out of the side windows rather than staring at the wall when I look to the sides, which I doubt is what happens IRL. The monitor is too high to be used comfortably for general use like this though, as the middle of it is at the top of my forehead, which is fine for looking up at the top half when simming but not for browsing, etc. So I'd have to use the lower monitor for general use. I've been told by owners of the Hannspree touchscreen that fully tilted back to 60 degrees, it's top-edge is 22-23cm off the desk, so that would just about work. It's 407mm deep, so allowing 200mm for a keyboard in front of it, plus 100mm for the upper monitor behind it, I'd need just over 700mm, so it would be possible with my Dad's 78cm desk (plus 5cm gap between it and the wall). However, I'm going to look more at the Dell for myself, as it's a fair bit less high and wide (the Hannspree is particularly wide at 575mm) and a non-touchscreen for my Dad. Now I want to get/make a stand for my Dad's monitor that works like these touchscreen stands though, so that the bottom edge is pulled forwards, rather than just tilting at the centre, as that will let me put it further back on the desk, close to the upper monitor.

Thanks for the photos Mr Burns. Cool idea but I need something that can easily be used for both simming and general use without changing stuff around unfortunately (adjusting height/tilt will be OK though). I'm thinking that as the setup will be up against the back wall, I can just build a shelf at the back of my stand for the upper monitor to rest on (without it's stand), with a piece of wood in front to stop it moving forwards and a vertical piece of wood behind to screw the VESA mount to, to stop it tipping forwards from the top if accidentally caught. A height adjustable pole would be better though but as it probably won't clamp onto my Dad's desk, perhaps what I could do is build a little shelf on top of the desk for it to clamp to. I'd then have to secure that shelf down somehow but I might be able to find or make some metal strips with a U bend at one end which I can clamp to the lip below the desk and then screw to the shelf above the desk to hold it steady. I'm also thinking of getting this touch screen http://www.hannspree.co.uk/products/monitors/hanns-g/ht-series/ht231hpb for the lower monitor, as it's stand can tilt from 10 to 60 degrees (not sure if it goes in between as well). I need to know how high the top edge will sit at the various tilt angles though, as well as how far forward the bottom edge will come. You increase the tilt by pulling the front forward, so that the bottom edge always rests on the desk and it's beyond me trying to work out in my head how this will work, so I'll have to try and find a piece of cardboard the right size to work it out! It's a shame it has the built-in speakers though, as they're off no use to my Dad (or myself) and just make it take up more space. Even if I do get that, I think I'd still build a frame to go around it, so that a lid can be put on it to use it as a document stand when not simming. I was thinking I'd need a strip of wood all around the inside edge of the frame and recessed for the lid to rest on, but I figure if I put a short pole protruding towards me in each of the side panels near the top and a matching hole in the lid, I can just slot it on top and they'll hold it in place, which makes the build a lot simpler. I'm not sure if it'll be wasted on my Dad though, as he only really flies X-Plane, so it might be better to get him an IPS monitor, which will be a lot cheaper and keep the touchscreen for myself for DCS/Helios. If I really thought it would be useful for him, I'd get one for each of us but there'll be very limited need for him to click any buttons, whereas in a combat sim there's obviously more need to be able to quickly press/flick stuff without faffing about with the mouse. Actually, whilst more expensive at £200, the Dell S2240T might be more practical, as it doesn't have those speakers and thus takes up less space. It's spec details how much space it takes up at min/max tilt as well, which is helpful and shows me that neither my Dad nor myself will have room to use the deeper Hannspree tilted back to 60 degrees, which is what I think I'll need it at to keep the other monitor at a reasonable height. Height (compressed ~ extended): 382.9 mm (15.07 inches) ~ 195.4mm (7.69 inches) Width: 522.5 mm (20.57 inches) Depth (compressed ~ extended): 77.4 mm (3.05 inches) ~ 420.9mm (16.57 inches) It depends what view I want on the main monitor though. I'm working on the assumption that the dash is normally about chest height (about 17cm above my desk), with the HUD at eye level (about 44cm), so with the bottom edge of the viewable area about 17cm off the desk, that would be about the right place to show the dash. However, I could put the monitor higher, say 30cm from the desk and not show the dash but just start the view around the bottom of the HUD, which will mean there's more of the sky or overhead panel visible at the top of the screen. With the upper monitor that high, I obviously wouldn't need to tilt the Hannspress back so much and then it might fit. My Dell monitor stand only goes up to about 19cm though, so I'll have to raise it up before I can test whether this works in practice.

Yeah, that's why I need to put the lower monitor at an angle, as shown in my pictures, so that the upper monitor isn't too high. It's just working out what angle to use really, that will leave the screen visible (IPS should help here) and not take up too much desk space. Look forward to seeing your pictures.

Thanks for the suggestion Duckling. I want to avoid wall-mounting, partly because my Dad probably won't want to drill holes in the wall but also because it will be tricky to get the monitor at the right height first time, so being able to tweak it up/down will make it easier. I want to stick with a normal monitor for the lower screen, to keep costs down. Also, there's no way to put anything below the desk, everything has to sit on/above it. The upper monitor will need to be much higher than normal working height to present at the correct height for a cockpit window view (I don't really know but I get the impression the top of the dash is normally below the pilot's chin, so about 12-13" off the desk for the bottom edge of the screen area), so I either need to be able to move it down for 'normal' use or be able to use the lower monitor, perhaps by adjusting the tilt, for 'normal' use. I'll probably just have to build something to test what might work, as it's pretty impossible to just work it out on paper. I want to keep the upper monitor as far back against the wall as possible, so that the lower monitor then takes as little deskspace as possible. Normally, an arm wouldn't acheive this, as it will clamp to the desk (which is already 5cm from the wall) and then the monitor is in front of the pole. However, I think I could do it by using an arm like this http://www.amazon.co.uk/VonHaus-Monitor-Bracket-Rotation-Pull-Out-Black/dp/B00DW8MGVI/ref=sr_1_37?ie=UTF8&qid=1404872122&sr=8-37&keywords=monitor+stand clamped to the left of where the monitor needs to be, with the adjustable arm then lying flat against the wall but I won't be able to tell for sure without buying it. It probably won't even be usable with my Dad's desk because of the stupid lip that has but I should be able to use it myself and it will let me experiment with heights. It will mean the pole is behind the shelf holding the speaker but that shouldn't be a problem if I'm not going to be adjusting it. Reading reviews of these products, it seems there's all kinds of pitfalls, like some not having removable VESA mount plates, so that you have to screw the entire pole to the monitor and then lift that onto the assembly, so picking one without these issues is going to be fun! http://www.amazon.co.uk/MDM11S-Single-Monitor-Bracket-Pull-Out/dp/B001BSDVW4/ref=pd_cp_ce_0

Nice :) E-mail sent.

I think it could work well with castAR, which can project the controls onto blank surfaces, allowing you to use any plane you want and allowing you to see the switches move when you flick them, whilst leaving the exterior view on a HD/UHD monitor

I'm in the UK but that's not really what I need anyway, as it's a floorstanding unit and I need a desktop unit. It's a lot easier with a floorstanding unit like that to position the upper screen at a suitable height, as the lower screen can sit very low down, as shown here http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=85478 but obviously with a desktop unit, the lower screen can't be lower than the desk, so the only way to keep the upper screen at the right height, is to tilt the lower screen back more so that it's top edge sits lower. I can probably get away with this, as sitting at the desk the user is close enough to be almost above it, whereas with the floorstanding unit, the lower screen is further away and might be hard to read if tilted back more. I measured the current height of my Dad's monitor yesterday and the top edge is about 42cm above the desk. Putting the upper screen just above that would thus put the bottom edge at about eyebrow level, which is clearly too high and instead it should probably be about 35cm to put the exterior view roughly where it would be in a real cockpit (which will probably be too high for general use). That in turn dictates the angle I need to put the lower monitor at, so that it's top edge is below 35cm and means I need to be able to reduce the tilt angle to move the lower monitor into a suitable position for general use, unless I can find a suitable arm that will allow me to move the upper monitor forward and down, like this: EDIT: Alternatively, with the upper monitor's lower edge at 30cm, that might be comfortable enough for both simming and general use, so if I can incline the lower monitor to end below this, there might not be any need to move either monitor. I'll have to work out how much either method will make the lower monitor protrude towards the front of the desk though and check it will leave enough room for keyboard/mouse, etc and perhaps look at getting something smaller than 24" if necessary.

That is a shame. I just downloaded the FC3 training missions and was disappointed to find they're all low quality videos, rather than interactive missions. Even more frustrating that they're recorded from interactive training missions, with instructions to do this or that, which we clearly can't do. If these videos are from FC2, are they still valid for FC3 or will they teach me bad habits/no longer applicable techniques?

I might be misunderstanding what you mean by design restrictions but these are some of the things I have to bear in mind. If this isn't what you meant or you have specific questions, please ask. a) at least one of the monitors has to be at a suitable position (or easily moved to such) to be used for general work. At the moment, the non-height adjustable Acer has the bottom of the bezel approx 5cm off the desk (approx 9.5cm from desk to screen area) and I guess tilted 5-10 degrees back, so that's what my Dad's used to but that doesn't mean it's the 'perfect position' and he might find having the monitor at eye height even better, or maybe a monitor touching the desk and tilted back more would work, although I've got a feeling that will be a bit low. b) the bottom of the upper monitor (or at least the viewable area) needs to be above the top of the lower monitor, so the latter needs to be at an angle that a) doesn't put the upper monitor too high (perhaps for general use the upper third should be at eye-level, whilst for simming it should be a bit higher, with the lower third at eye height but if it can easily be adjusted up/down to suitable positions then that will be fine), b) doesn't make it encroach too much towards the front of the desk and c) is easily readable. I measured the desk as 78cm deep, with a further 5cm gap between it and the rear wall. At the moment, the Acer stand is 200cm, which can obviously be reduced to around the depth of the monitor (about 62cm) by mounting it on a pole, allowing it to go further back, although most of the stand depth is in front of the monitor. c) my Dad does a lot of paperwork at his desk, so I need to be mindful of that. What I thought of doing is making a cover for the lower screen, with a lip along the bottom edge, so that when he's not simming he can use it as a document stand to make up for the lost desk space (assuming that the upper monitor is in a suitable position to be used as the main/only monitor that is. Sometimes he'll probably find it more useful to use both monitors, which he'll be able to do by sacrificing the document stand). At a minimum, I would need a square in each corner for the lid to rest on, so either the box has to be a bit wider than the monitor to allow room for these corner blocks or I find some way to fit these blocks on top of and after the monitor, possibly by attaching them to pieces of U angle, which go over and screw into the side panels of the monitor box. For the control panels either side, I thought of leaving the bottom area (say 1/4, maybe a bit less) open, so I could either fit a drawer there to store stuff or just leave it open to keep that area of the desk usable. Some stuff, like the speakers, will be raised up off the desk on top of the control panels, so that will help free up some space anyway. d) I'm going to buy an IPS for the second monitor, which can be used either for the upper screen (outside view) or the lower screen (cockpit instruments). Depending on the position/angle of the lower screen, it may be necessary to use it for that because of it's better viewing angles compared to the Acer LCD but ideally I'd use it for the upper screen, so I'd like to try and keep the lower screen position/angle such that the LCD works there. e) Not my focus at the moment, as I need to get the central monitor box sorted first but after that, I'll probably put the Arduino in the right-hand control panel, as that's nearest the router it will connect to and if I put it in the central monitor box, it will be impossible to get to the rear of that without removing the right-hand control panel. I don't plan to have loads of controls on the left-hand panel, at the moment anyway, mostly momentary buttons which can all be wired to an analog input on the Arduino with a couple of wires, by using resistors. Each button will either be illuminated or have a corresponding LED, but I think the wiring for those can be minimal as well by using a matrix. I might put 5-6 encoders at the base of the central box, for adjusting the gauge knobs, assuming I build it with a raised base like in this picture Both these boxes could have hardwired cables terminating in IDC plugs, with corresponding headers on the right-hand panel containing the Arduino. The right-hand panel will only have a couple of encoders and switches for now but I'll probably add some LED displays and more controls in future, so that's likely to be the 'busiest' box eventually.

Hmm, seems to be something different here then as it isn't working at all for me, not straight after loading and not after clicking. I'll have to try shutting down some stuff to see if MSI Afterburner or anything else is causing it. EDIT: lol, that was a lucky guess. With MSI Afterburner/RivaTunerStatisticsServer shutdown, Alt+Tab works normally again in DCS. I can't see any options in Afterburner that might cause this and RivaTunerSS currently has 'Show OSD' set Off. It did update the other day, so I guess something in the update is behind this.

Nice solution to getting the lower monitor out of the way to watch TV/play games that don't use it but doesn't really help with my situation I'm afraid.

I'm sure this was working last time I tried. Still using 1.27 but whether in Fullscreen or Windowed, Alt+Tab doesn't work anymore (in the launcher menus, haven't tried from the cockpit) which is a pain, as I often need to alt-tab to tweak other software that I use with DCS. Just tried with 1.2.8 on Steam in case it was a mod I have installed with 1.27 but it doesn't work with that either. Is it just me or is it not working for anyone anymore?

I've trying to design and build a dual monitor box/stand for my Dad's birthday, to hold the lower monitor at an angle (maybe 30 degrees) to display the cockpit instruments and the upper monitor upright above it, showing the view out of the cockpit. This is actually for his X-plane but once I've built his, I want to make myself one just like it for my use with DCS/Helios. I've tried using Sketchup and TurboCad and found both quite frustrating. I'm now using the trial of Rhino3D, which I find somewhat easier, not least because it shows several views simultaneously, so that when I draw something and it puts it in the wrong place (which it always seems to do, too far forward, too low, etc) I can easily drag it to the right place in one of the other views. Anyway, here's some screenshots of what I've knocked up so far. What I'm thinking is that the lower monitor (Green) will be attached to a VESA bracket, whose other part is screwed to a piece of wood (Red) which runs the width of the box and has a hole in each end, which then lowers onto another piece of wood (Cyan) fixed to the side panels and with posts attached which go into the holes on the piece of wood attached to the VESA bracket/monitor. The (Purple) outlines on the side panels are cutouts to provide room to (a) get a hand under the monitor to lift it out and (b) fit a nut on top of the posts to secure it, although that might not be necessary. For the upper monitor, it could just sit on it's non-adjustable stand on a shelf(White) attached to the rear of the box, which is set at the right height so that the bottom of the monitor is level with the top of the lower monitor. I also need the side extensions to sit speakers on and eventually some panels with controls going to an Arduino will go underneath these shelves as well, probably sloped like the monitor box. The problem with that is it makes the whole thing rather deep, probably too deep for my Dad's desk (and mine for that matter), so it would be better to have a much narrower shelf at the rear and get a clamping pole to hold the upper monitor instead, which would allow for raising it and rotating into portrait mode, which might be useful for general office work. Here it is with the side extensions again but I'll probably move them back, so that they sit against the back wall, along with the upper monitor shelf. A concern I have is that neither monitor will be in a position that's comfortable for general use. I bought this adjustable VESA mount http://www.kenable.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=5271 which will allow the lower monitor to be tilted forward from it's 30 degree angle to a 10 degree angle, as shown in this picture, which might be OK although the monitor will still probably be a bit too low. Obviously it can't pivot on the point I've used in this diagram, as that has the monitor going through the (Red) wood! I could build up the base (this is with a 60mm base added and the upper monitor moved forward, so that it clamps to the top of the box, rather than a shelf at the rear of it) if that would put the lower monitor at a suitable height for general use when tilted to 10 degrees but then it might put the upper monitor too high for X-Plane. I bought this cheaper mount as well, in case I decide to just have the lower monitor fixed at a particular angle http://www.kenable.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=6005 I think what would be ideal is an arm for the upper monitor that will let it be moved from the shown position, forward and down in front of the lower monitor and angled back about 10 degrees (this last point might not be critical though) but so far I haven't seen anything like that, so if anyone can point me to one, please do. If the upper monitor is going to be the one used for general use and I keep the lower one fixed at a 30 degree tilt, then I was thinking of making a lid for the box, so that it can serve as a document stand when not being used. That will require fitting some sort of lip on the inside edges of the box for the lid to sit on, which will of course have to be fitted in place after the monitor and will require recessing the monitor a bit into the box to make room for the lip. I considered using this instead of building a box http://www.amazon.co.uk/Twin-Vertical-Monitor-Clamp-Silver/dp/B0047UOHI0/ref=sr_1_50?ie=UTF8&qid=1402231400&sr=8-50&keywords=monitor+arm but a) I'm not sure it will allow the lower monitor to tilt back as much as I'd like (30 degrees), b) even if it does, it would put the lower monitor partly further back than the upper monitor, which would look strange and c) I'm not sure it would enable me to put either monitor at the right height for general use and even if it did, it would probably involve tediously adjusting both monitors and I want something that's easy to move between office and sim setups. Another issue is my Dad's desk has this annoying lip underneath at the back, as shown on the right here (the one further in is the modesty panel) which could make it impossible to clamp anything to. So yeah, I'm a bit stuck here and would welcome any suggestions.

Well if someone intercepts your e-mail first, I guess it's tied to theirs ;) Actually though, it's not actually tied to any particular machine as far as I know, there's just a limited number of activations. After those are used up, you just have to wait 30 days to get a bonus activation before you can do it again.

HD 6950 2GB (unlocked to 6970 shaders)

Well I recently bought a game on GamersGate and they didn't feel they need to expose my serial code on e-mail, so at least some firms act sensibly ;)

Funnily enough I came across this case and bought one for myself, as it's almost exactly like the case I was planning to build myself, although it wouldn't have turned out as neat and would have cost me more (both money and time), so I was well chuffed when I stumbled across this :) It's not suitable for my Dad though, as he needs a standard tower but the NZXT Source 530 I've bought for him seems pretty much ideal.

Thanks. That's a very nice case you've got there but the NZXT Source 530 suits me better, not least because it costs a lot less :)

Although this wasn't suitable for this particular build (for my Dad), it led me to the HAF XB EVO http://www.coolermaster.com/case/lan-box-haf-series/haf-xb-evo/ which is pretty much my dream case, with the PSU and HDDs in the lower chamber and the motherboard in a separate chamber above it and lying horizontally to reduce stress on the board from heavy heatsinks, etc. I've been planning to build something very similar for about a year but it would never have turned out as neat and would have cost me more than the £85 I've just ordered this for, so I was really happy to discover it before I got started :)

Thanks. Whilst slot 5, where the 2nd GPU would go, might have 330mm clear, it looks like slots 6 and 7, which are likely to be needed as well with a decent quiet cooler on the card, would be blocked by the HDD cage, as with most other cases I've looked at. I've found something suitable though. The NZXT Source 530 http://www.nzxt.com/product/detail/137-source-530-full-tower-computer-case.html has space for 310mm GPUs with the cage, 444mm without it and has the cage in three modules of 3, 1 and 2 drive bays, so I can remove the top two (the 3 and 1 bay), leaving just the two bay at the bottom sitting under the motherboard and not blocking any slots and it has a mount for the SSD behind the motherboard With 310mm space with the cage, I probably won't even need to remove it but it's nice to have the option in case cards get bigger. Front and PSU removable dust filters, mesh front, no holes that I need to block on the side (window) panel, ports at the top on the front panel. A bit over my original £50 target at £65 but considering there don't appear to be any cheaper options and it's a nice case overall, I don't mind paying a bit more.

Excellent. Look forward to seeing the results of your experimentation :)

Very nice looking case indeed, although it's over double my £50 and no PSU dust filter rules it out for me http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00835ZCLQ?*Version*=1&*entries*=0 Even with the upper drive cage in-place, it gives 354mm for the cards, which is more than some cases provide with the drive cage removed! With it removed, it provides a massive 463cm! Obviously the case is much deeper than the one's I've looked at and it also provides 196mm for the CPU cooler, so is much wider as well and even if I could afford it, I think I'd prefer something a bit more compact, if only to ensure it fits into the space I have available without sticking out and tripping people over. I think probably 170mm for the CPU cooler and 354mm (if that) for the cards with the drive cage removed would be sufficient, I find it hard to imagine any 463cm cards being produced (I think the current longest is 317mm).

I'm looking for a case under £50 that must: a) accommodate at least 159mm tall CPU HSF (the Evo 212 but space for bigger options would be good) and have good clearance between it and the top of the case b) have plenty of space for dual long (305-317mm) GPUs c) have a nice open front to allow for good airflow but also have removable, or at least easily cleanable, dust filtering d) have dust filtering on the bottom PSU intake e) have two 5.25" drive bays, so that there's one for DVD drive and a spare for other stuff (which can always be used as a 3.5" bay with an adapter) f) have USB/audio ports at the top, with at least one USB3 port I guess I could compromise on e) as if I was desperate, I could use a USB DVD drive, freeing up the single 5.25" bay and on f) as I could run a USB3 cable from the back onto the desk and likewise with the audio ports. I guess I could compromise on having dust filtering on the front, although it would mean having to open up the case to clean it more often but dust filtering on the PSU intake is essential, as I can't remove the PSU and open it up when it gets full of dust! So far, the only case I've seen that doesn't have the drive cage blocking any of the PCI slots is the Cooler Master N200 http://www.coolermaster.com/case/mini-tower/n200/ but then I realised it's only mATX and I need ATX. I would have thought that most people building a powerful PC with dual GPUs would be using ATX boards but I haven't found a single case that would accomodate this, as GPU1 would go in slots 2 & 3 (slot 1 is PCI-E x1 on most boards, certainly on my Asus Z97-A) then slot 4 left empty for airflow (depending on the cooler, GPU1 might overhang it a bit anyway), with GPU2 in slots 5 & 6 (possibly overhanging 7). At best, the cases I've looked at might leave slot 5 clear to the front of the case but have the drive cage blocking slots 6 and 7. Looking at the Bitfenix Neos, if they just reduced the HDD cage to two slots and then put the SSD cage between that and the PSU (or anywhere else that didn't block the GPU slots), we'd be sorted: http://www.bitfenix.com/global/en/products/chassis/neos#gallery So has anyone found anything like what I'm looking for?

Yeah, I know the normal strips can as I've bought those before but as this uses a controller and the LEDs are individually addressable, I'm not sure that will be possible with this.