countto10

Cannon surely? Waste of a missile.

If I didn't know the figures I wouldn't have replied. How does a climb at Mach 0.95 starting from supersonic equal 60s for 36000ft, assuming that the plane is actually starting from ground level and didn't do some climbing on the way to supersonic, which it does because that actually makes reaching supersonic easier. Furthermore the top of the power curve is not at Mach 0.9-0.95 even at ground level, and certainly not at altitude for the EJ200s. The article is as wrong about the performance as it is about its claims that the Typhoon is the most advanced jet fighter. 150s to Mach 1.6 is probably very conservative since even an F-16C Blk52 can manage Mach 1.0-1.6 in about 50s at that altitude. It could be that the 2.5 minute figure is with drop tanks (air superiority not interceptor configuration). That could conceivably slow down climb to 90s and acceleration from Mach 1.0-1.6 to 60s. A production F-15A running in a configuration that had a thrust-to-weight ratio of nearly 2:1 as referenced in an Su-27 documentary. Hence why it managed to reach 40,000ft in 59s. You'll also note that the sound barrier is broken during the climb. Probably more comparable to an EAP demonstrator fitted with XG-40-2 engines and a light fuel load.

F-15Cs could go. This seems to lack foresight and planning. http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130915/DEFREG02/309150004/USAF-Weighs-Scrapping-KC-10-10-Fleets

So Harriers will dominate.

Maybe if beam width is the problem for radars then other technology like LIDAR may slowly come about, which may also have the benefit of blinding enemy pilots.

Wide angle optical sensors do not scan. They're more the equivalent of an eye. Visual range? No. More than that. At the limits of effective range then it becomes about fusion with data from other sensors.

That has been the legacy case but I would imagine that IRST renders a sub-20nm mode defunct now. Covers a wider volume, adequate sensitivity over such a short range and entirely passive. It would be silly to use radar for sub-20nm searches.

Ah right I see where you're coming from. However my point is that it would still help detection range to be able to use a longer range mode at shorter distances since most actual killing will be done inside 40-60km due to AAM performance limitations, whereas radars are generally set-up such that their narrowest beam is aimed at detection of normal fighters at ranges over 240km. Using passive sensors to cue the radar at shorter, missile capable ranges could still be useful. The beam width also depends on wavelength but reduced wavelength does increase atmospheric attenuation. http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=AD0255135 http://www.rfcafe.com/references/electrical/atm-absorption.htm I believe beam width is usually defined as the angle within which power is at least 0.5 times the peak not 0.7. http://www.radartutorial.eu/06.antennas/an05.en.html I'm also looking at the second link wondering whether lower frequency radar could be useful. How accurately does a modern missile need to be guided by INS before self-locking? MWR AGMs can be fired blind and still lock targets themselves as can some IIR AAMs. With a smart enough missile maybe the razor sharp precision in guiding the missile to the ball park won't be as important especially if it knows what it's looking for.

Do you have the equations for that?

I'm wasn't talking about increasing the radar power which would reduce MTBO. I'm talking about narrowing the beam and turning a flashlight into a laser, or a laser into another laser with far less beam divergence. The power output remains the same, the received power increases. For instance, in your CRT analogy, instead of scanning the screen, you're scanning a pixel in the same way that you scanned the screen.

Well that would throw a spanner in the skunk works if it becomes an RF denied environment but I guess there's always a burn through range and narrowing the search area could increase that range. Anyway enough armchair air combat for now.

Aviation Week: Textron Unveils Scorpion Light Attack, Recce Jet The Scorpion demonstrator is intended to whet the U.S. Air Force's appetite with the promise of a low procurement and operating cost. The pitch is for this aircraft, which is optimized for 5-hr. endurance with onboard intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) collectors and weapons, to handle the Air Force's low-end missions such as U.S.-based interdiction, quick-reaction natural disaster support and air sovereignty patrols. http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_09_16_2013_p22-615375.xml 2 seat, twin engine light attack jet Max speed: 450 knots Endurance: 5 hours @ 150nm Payload: 9,000 lb (6,000lb internal fuel, 3,000lb internal payload bay, 6 hardpoints) All-composite, 20,000-hour life airframe Two 4,000lb thrust TFE731 turbofans Weight, empty & MTOW: 11,800 - 21,250 lb (5,350 - 9,650 kg) http://www.scorpionjet.com/aircraft-features/

No it's 60 seconds. http://www.baesystems.com/enhancedarticle/BAES_156125/typhoon 30s to supersonic, climb rate over 62,000ft per minute with 6 MRAAMs and 2 SRAAMs (interceptor configuration). It takes <60s to reach Mach 1.6 once at that altitude. These were very much the design parameters. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofighter_Typhoon I believe the Streak Eagle was even faster although that wasn't exactly a standard production model F-15.

Aviation Week: Textron Unveils Scorpion Light Attack, Recce Jet The Scorpion demonstrator is intended to whet the U.S. Air Force's appetite with the promise of a low procurement and operating cost. The pitch is for this aircraft, which is optimized for 5-hr. endurance with onboard intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) collectors and weapons, to handle the Air Force's low-end missions such as U.S.-based interdiction, quick-reaction natural disaster support and air sovereignty patrols. http://www.aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/AW_09_16_2013_p22-615375.xml 2 seat, twin engine light attack jet Max speed: 450 knots Endurance: 5 hours @ 150nm Payload: 9,000 lb (6,000lb internal fuel, 3,000lb internal payload bay, 6 hardpoints) All-composite, 20,000-hour life airframe Two 4,000lb thrust TFE731 turbofans Weight, empty & MTOW: 11,800 - 21,250 lb (5,350 - 9,650 kg)

Nah. Atmospheric absorption is huge relative to radar, hence why radar is still the primary sensor long range detection. http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/IR_prop/IR_prop.htm Not sure you're understanding the problem. You can bounce a laser off the moon. Put the same power into a flashlight and you won't even be able to see it from the edge of the atmosphere. The radar in normal mode is sweeping an altitude range of maybe 15-20km across 60 degrees. If it only has to sweep 0.1 degrees and 100m, then the power density per unit area on any target is several magnitudes higher and so is the reflection as per the moon-laser analogy. False information fed from an aircraft is still directional hence why HOJ functions exist. The jamming or false information is just more food for the passive sensors. AESA itself is very difficult to jam without inside information on the frequency algorithms. No doubt the missile's detection range is reduced probably about 7 fold over a 1m2 object but that still means it can see the target from about 2nm away based on radar heads now 10-15 years old. Probably far more now. For IR heads it's further still. Technology improves and no doubt triangulation methods will become more precise as will detection of LPI. The problem with buddy tracking is that communication has to take place and there's a signal associated with that too. There is a lot of propaganda out there but it comes from both sides of the story. The truth is that nobody really knows how the existing technologies will perform against each other or what the other has. Even friendly nations are unwilling to expose the true extent of their capabilities in training and nothing performs as well in combat as it does in testing and training. Of course it also boils down to missile performance. Seeing something doesn't mean that you can hit it. For stealth to work you have to be able to hit things from a range at which they can't see you on a ratio equal to or greater than the costs of the aircraft.

I've been told that IR stealth is a white elephant because IR detection is extremely range dependent, more so than radar, and it's impossible to usefully reduce the IR footprint of a jet engine. So whilst you can still achieve useful radar stealth despite the R to the 4 term by reducing RCS by a factor of a thousand, useful IR stealth isn't really workable for jet fighters. Detection range with radar is typically based on a wide area sweep where the transmitted power is spread over a wide area. If however you knew where to look, the power could be more focused, almost like a LIDAR effect. In the case of passive triangulation accuracy, that would surely depend on two things. Distance to target and the distance between the detection sources. Maybe you're right in the fact that the technology doesn't presently exist but there certainly seems to be some scientific merit in it.

Question on stealth (seems like as good a place to ask it as any). If you can detect the direction a radar transmission is coming from then, regardless of frequency, can you use two passive detectors on separate aircraft or wing tips to triangulate the origin and then use radar in a very narrow search field to lock the target in that area or maybe cue a missile just from passive detection, with an IR seeker for the terminal approach?

If you armed them with nuclear warheads and stuck them on a cargo ship that would be very difficult to defend against.

I hear the S-500 shoots down aircraft before they even take off.

So what's the difference between the S-300, S-400 and the new S-350?

This helmet mounted display was developed by BAE Systems for dismounted command and control applications Mast-mounted area surveillance system provided by Chess Dynamics Remotely controlled weapon stations from Precision Remote were demonstrated at DSEI 2013. This one is mounted on a telescopic tower, can be elevated on emergency to cover areas where enemy activity is suspected to occur. The weapon can be triggered by a gunshot detection system (shown below) to execute rapid response. Among the payloads developed for the NERVA robot is an unmanned ground sensor (UGS) that can move into position autonomously and remain on station for long duration. Lemur Remotely controlled weapon station form SAAB mounted on a fully camouflaged LMV modelled for CBRN recce missions. STIDD Swimmer Delivery Vehicles (SDV) A range of STIDD Swimmer Delivery Vehicles (SDV) displayed at DSEI 2013 A range of STIDD Swimmer Delivery Vehicles (SDV) displayed at DSEI 2013 The CAELUS loitering guided precision weapon is one of several families of future ‘concept weapons’ pursued by MBDA s30JF4pYbTw

The Gnome from Slovakia is designed to dive under operator control (linked via cable) and search underwater at a distance 50 meter away. A bird-like mini-UAV displayed by EXPAL, mimics a hawk to blend in natural environment. A new fuel cell from Ultra Electronics generates electrical energy from propane, at an efficiency of 30%. The fuel cell weighs 2.5 kilograms and requires only 100 grams of propane to run a UAV for one hour. A typical pressurized container will run an electrically powered mini-UAV for eight to 12 hours. An equal weight of Lithium-ion battery pack would be able to fly a similar drone for 2-3 hours. This Precision Remote control kit for a long range sniper rifle controls the weapon’s mount via cable, using battery pack recharged by solar panel, the unit sustained an unlimited mission cycle, supporting snipers on extended missions, enabling the sniper team to monitor their weapons and observation gear from a remote, safe position. General Dynamics unveiled the FRES SV vehicle at DSEI 2013. One side was coated with a multispectral camouflage, the other remained bare. FRES SV was shown by General Dynamics at the DSEI 2013 event Nexter Titus 6×6 vehicle employs advanced design architecture to offer many advantages for infantry mobility Nexter unveils the new 6×6 Titus armored combat personnel carrier BAE Systems RG35 The CRAB from Panhard is shown at DSEI 2013 mounting the Cockeril turret BAE Systems displayed the CV90 with the new multispectral camouflage Supacat LRV-400 A line of combat vehicles from Supacat on display at DSEI 2013

The MACE from MIRA robotic vehicles was designed to carry the Ground Penetrating radar on route clearing missions MIRA has a hybrid-electric propulsion that optimally supports the Ground penetrating Radar on the slow movement required for the route clearing missions D-DALUS from IAT21 is designed with an innovative propulsion mechanism supporting the vehicle in ground effect on its flight This propulsion mechanism developed for D-DALUS can carry payloads up to 10 kg in weight. IAT21 works on the development of other platforms carrying heavier payloads as well Slyph uses a three-arm design, each arm mounts a counter rotating tandem motor providing stabilization and forward lateral maneuverability Recon Robotics displayed this Throwbot, equipped with larger wheels to cope with higher obstacles Throwbot is smaller and lighter, it is also much cheaper than most other robots Hundreds of miniature Black Hornet systems are currently operating by the British military, demonstrating surprisingly long life. Each micro-copter has three cameras, linked to a single video channel, switched between the cameras of interest.

http://englishrussia.com/2013/09/10/maks-2013-indoor-exhibition/