GrapeJam

The question is: Should the plane behave like that? For a jet fighter that is legendary for it's low speed and poststall maneuverability, the in game SU 27 sure has some weird (and deadly) stall characteristics. Also, I tried inverted flying and the engines cut out after 2 seconds, not sure if this is correct as WW2 propeller fighters could endure at least 10 seconds of inverted flight.

P51D vs K4 would be an alright fight, till you factor in the FW 190 D9.

Yeah, in the same way that MW50 on D9 was not "standard" since there were still other units that lacked it. Hell the D9 itself was not standard.

It's your personal opinion, more power to you. You can always limit yourself at 67"hg if the P51D get remodeled, just don't force it on others.

Pretty sure RL P51D didn't go against K4 with 67"hg limit, it's at least 75"hg. Having the P51D in game limited at 67"hg is neither historical nor balanced. It would be interesting to see the D9 and K4 users reaction if the MW50's taken away from the planes, would their reaction still be your standard "l2p noob"? Well, seeing as your virtual luftwaffe aces alway be the first to whine about supposedly "unhistorical thing" about their planes I seriously doubt it.

Well 15th mostly operated in Italy area, and AFAIK their P51s weren't primarily the D version. For the D9 and K4 the B4 + MW 50 setup was the standard with C3 units being the exception, while for the P51D 150 octane fuel at 75"hg boost was the standard, with 67"hg being the exception. Hell, I don't think I've read about a post D-Day P51D running at 67"hg, it's alway 70"hg at worst. And it seems that the P51D also doesn't have G suit modeled.

Only 1 D9 in the list, that's uh, disappointing. Anyway, now the K4's joined the fray, the P51D doesn't even have the advantage of outurning Germans anymore, it seriously needs it's 150 octane fuel and higher boost limit.

I found the easiest way to take off in the P51D is to take off with at least 3/4 of the throttle height, at this power the torque is much easier to control. Heavy planes like the P51D like high power to take off.

What power setting is the K4 modeled with? 1.98 ata?

To clarify further, the early P51Bs had the V-1650-3 engine, AKA Merlin 61, but later refitted with the V-1650-7 engine, AKA Merlin 66, most P51Bs were fitted with this engine.

No I didn't say "everytime", but still it makes no sense for the engine to die after 5 minutes running at 67"hg at low speed, when the British allowed their Mustang IVs 5 minutes of 81"hg use for combat, certainly that would cover low speed dogfighting.

Sorry, I don't see how can the engine die after 5 minutes of slow speed dogfight at 67"hg when the British allowed 5 minutes of 81"hg for combat. Unless your ground crews are cheapskate and pour low-less than 100-octane crap into your gas tank. Yes the merlin 66 could run less 100 octane fuel, Soviet Spitfire IX did run on lower than 100 octane fuel(maybe 92-95, but certainly not the usual 78 octane crap the Soviets usually fed their tanks), of course with reduced performance.

This is thie P-51D-20NA: Notice something absent in the rear? The tail radar. This is the DCS P51D: Notice something present in the rear? The tail radar. And FYI, 81"hg was first allowed for the 1943 P51B, which used the exact same engine as the P51D ;) And USAAF P51D started with 70"hg during D-Day, the raised to 75"hg minimum in the fall of 1944. Right, apparently the 5 minutes limit is just for high speed diving.:music_whistling: Oh wait no, the article just said that 5 minutes was allowed. Doesn't matter, when 5 minutes of 81"hg was allowed no matter what speed, what circumstance(that is including low speed dogfight), there's no for reason the P51D's engine to die after 5 minutes of 67"hg in low speed dogfight. Seriously, use your common sense.

*double post*

No known operational D9 used C3 fuel, correct, still here's it theoretical performance with C3 fuel: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/Fw_190_D-9_C3.pdf

Wanna know what the modification was? The throttle. Anyway, when the P51D was allowed 5 minutes of 81" hg no matter what speed, there's no reason for the P51D's engine to die after 5 minutes of 67"hg of low speed aerobatics. And the 81"hg was not just for V1 chasing, but also for combat. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/combat-reports/129-davis-23march45.jpg

Actually for both planes at best conditions(the Dora running with C3 + MW50, the P51D running at 81"hg), the P51D is only like 10mph faster than the Dora at SL. But currently in game we have the Dora running at it's best condition, while the Mustang's at it's worst.

Lol. Sorry, but 67"hg is not war emergency power for the Mustang, 75 "hg/81hg is. And in fact during 67"hg test climb, the mustang showed no sign of overheating all the way to it's service sealing, that's more than 10 minutess at around 150mph. And we have report from pilots that pull 75"hg for around 15 minutes with no problem. http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/combat-reports/353-hinchey-14nov44.jpg RAF pilots were allowed 5 minutes of 81 "hg. http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/mustangtest.html There's no reason for the P51D's engine to die after immedietely 5 minutes of 67"hg usage. Just because the P51 had good high altitude performance, doesn't mean that it didn't have good low altitude performance, in fact, the engine develope the most power at low altitude. http://www.spitfireperformance.com/mustang/mustang-fig4.jpg Now shave around 10 mph off for the P51D.

Hey, I bought DCS P51D because I love the Mustang and want to fly a sim that depict it accurately, ok? And here I am seeing it ripping it's wings off instantly at 7gs, and the engine dies after 5 minutes of running at 67"hg with auto radiator, it's completely ********.

Wings instantly come off at 7Gs, engine dies after 5 minutes of continous running at 67"hg. Yep very accurate depiction of the Mustang. Yes that was sarcasm.

Regarding max power, the V-1650-7 in game develope 1720hp at 67"hg at 10k feet , pretty common combat altitude in game. And that is because ED chose to model the P51D at 67"hg max boost, a setting that it practically never used in combat, it ran at 70"hg minimum in combat. The maximum power output for the V-1650-7 engine for USAAF P51D that was used in combat was 1910hp, but the engine itself could be pushed to 2180hp at SL. http://www.spitfireperformance.com/merlin66hpchart.jpg Oh BTW, the 81"hg setting was allowed for 5 minutes, the fact that the in game P51D's engine dies after 5 minutes of continous running at 67"hg is pure bullshit, during real life test climb it was found that even at low speed climb, there was no overheating problem all the way to 30k feet. The P51D in DCS is a travesty and complete disappointment.

Pilot skills mean jack when it comes to speed and rate of climb, ok? Here's the problem with DCS P51D: The plane is limited to 67"hg of manifold pressure, a setting that was used with 100/130 octane fuel for like 2 months when the early P51D blocks was introduced into service, after ward it was raised to 70"hg of manifold pressure. But for most it's service life, USAAF P51D ran at 75"hg with 150 octane fuel, and British Mustang IV ran on 81"hg(and many USAAF pilots ran on this setting). http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/75inch-clearance-v-1650-7.jpg http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/mustangtest.html Pacific USAAF P51Ds ran at 80"hg with 115/145 octane fuel. http://www.mustangsmustangs.us/thehangar/index.php?topic=145.0;wap2 Here's the unhistorical thing: The P51D we have a in game is a late version of the P51D, indicated by the presence of the tail fin, tail radar. There's no reason for it to be limited at 67"hg, it should run at 75"hg at the very least. And worse, the wings instantly come off when you pull like 7Gs at clean configuration, that's the ultimate load limit at maximum loads with external fuel tanks, at clean configuration, the P51D has a load limit 8Gs, a safety factor of 1.5 and ultimate wings failure at 12Gs. And at 81"hg, the P51D indeed did outperform the Dora(even running on 2.02 ata with engine gaps sealed) at all altitude ;)