3mta3

Harrier: Sidearms seem to be missing model - just all black on rails - look ok when fired. Gun CCIP Pipper seems to not be working. Bomb Fall line on CCIP pipper missing. Seems to fly better - higher roll rate than before. Still exploring.

Clues to what actually happens when these limits are exceeded are all through the real manual. No warning or cautions of sudden loss of thrust or JPT spikes. Read the real manual. Takeoff - throttle -Full , accelerating transition Throttle - full. Once wingborne reduce power and extinguish 15 sec light turn off water. Even running out of water with the switch on seems like a benign issue. Chapter 11 - Flight Charactistics is very good reading. No mention of sudden engine Meltdown. Even the OT light - Land as soon as practical (not immediate) and use minimum power. Does not warn you won't make thrust and will crash on landing. There are no warning about JPT spikes and sudden loss of thrust. I like reading manuals and learning new aircraft. It's like learning a new language. I'm passionate about this issue because I love this aircraft and just hope to make a positive contribution to making as realistic as possible. Thanks.

Awesome post and spot on. Does anyone really think the engine is going to destroy itself seconds after reaching one of the limitation tables timed limits? If so that limit has zero safety margin and why wouldn't the engine start degrading immediately? Why would it be fine at 9:59 and start a catastrophic meltdown at 10:01 that destroys its ability to make rated thrust in mere seconds? What changed in two seconds? Anyway the same issue is being raised on the Belsimtek threads about the same type of scripted melting of the engine they have coded into the latest Huey update. I think it strange that certain aircraft can't be made because a certain gov doesn't want them too. Others can't be made as we don't have access to documentation or everything is classified. So it seems they are striving for realism over guessing. Except when it comes to engine operation. That we will guess about. Lacking any proof the engine melts at the table time limits - we hard code this destruction none the less. Hell if your going to guess - guess me up a AH64 laser mavericks and a F16! In this thread you have a Harrier mechanic saying they same thing I am. It will run at max power all day long. It will not damage the engine. I fly Rolls Royce engines of a similar vintage to the Pegasus hundreds of hours a year. We are trained to use all the thrust if we need it. Yes. Push it to the stops. The engine control will protect the engine. Anyway it's up to the developers to fix - I'd rather have a realistic Harrier/Pegasus simulation than a arcade level engine model scripted to self destruct. Sorry virtual pilots. You could turn of the JPTL or DECU if you really really want to destroy your engine.

I’ve had the time to do a little more testing on the “subtle” engine performance degradation that is currently modeled. As it is now, the engine is scripted to destroy itself exactly at all the time limits in the aircraft limitations chart. Just a few examples: Combat 111% - JPT well below limits and even below MCT JPT - and at exactly 10 minutes - JPT spikes - I’ve seen it spike as high as 997. Even at these extreme temps, engine would run indefinitely at 111%. Of course though, thrust is massively reduced to the point of a normal landing is probably not possible. Max Thrust 109% - same deal - at 15 minutes - JPT spikes. Did not move throttle from max and this one eventually gave me a fire light, but engine continued to run the entire time. Short Lift Dry 113.5% - have to check this one again - it lasted 3 minutes - must’ve mis scripted this one - book limitation is 15 sec. I’m sort of curious what failure mode we are simulating here anyway? A fuel control runaway leading to JPT spike? I just can’t figure out what would cause the JPT to spike like that. Anyway, the point of this is I know you virtual pilots are giddy about being able to break your engine. It proves how good of pilots you are because “I’m not having that problem, you must not be watching your JPT!”. But all of this scripted engine damage is far from realistic and is certainly not how a turbine engine would respond in a real time limit exceedance. Unless you have a Harrier pilot on staff that has a real world example of ole “Wash Out” burning in after foolishly operating 11 minutes at combat power, I believe this JPT spike is over done, and unrealistic. I contend the engineers know at what temp the metal will be damaged and what RPM the engine can no longer sustain without shedding parts. They then add a safety margin. Then they design a electronic controller to protect the engine from reaching the safety margin. There, done, engine safe. However extended high power settings and high temps cause the engine to wear at a faster rate. Turbine blades erode and fans creep. But this is “subtle” and takes hundreds of hours. It doesn’t happen in 10 minutes! To extend the time of service of a engine additional “timed” limitations are added. Exceeding these limits does not damage the engine. It just wears it quicker. All of this is tracked by the mx computer and can be downloaded by the operator. There is even a Engine life units number on the engine page in this aircraft. During peacetime training these limits are carefully maintained to keep costs low for the operator. However - in combat - which is what we are simulating, if I need to take some life away from the engine to preserve the aircraft, damn right that throttle isn’t coming back at 10 minutes. I don’t care if they have to do a engine swap, it's better than a burning hole. I have carefully flown this aircraft, with the engine chart limitation chart printed out and still had problems doing a subsequent STOL takeoff. Engine was fine at 116% wet, suddenly JPT spiked and thrust was lost and I crashed. Has happened more than once. I know I didn’t hit any of the scripted timed limits. I’ve also got into a fresh jet, and the OT light is already flashing, and it just seems like its not making power. I’ve had problems after refueling and rearming, subsequent STO leads to overtemp and crash. All of this is frustrating, mostly because I know it is “gamed up” and not how a real jet would respond. I just want to point this all out before these artificial scripted time limits get “locked” in and we add engine management complexity to a aircraft that really doesn’t have a lot of complexity. That is the beauty of a jet turbine. It just keeps on running.

I hope the developer will reconsider the unrealistic loss of thrust following a max continuous power time limit exceedance. First of all the DECU is designed to protect the engine from damage - over speeds and temps that actually could damage the engine. The other time limits are designed to extend the life of the engine. You can exceed max continuous thrust all day and not damage a engine - but mx is going to be unhappy as they are going to need to perform inspections and the remaining time until overhaul will be reduced. This is a combat aircraft designed to be flown with minimal attention to engine limits by the pilot - because that's what the DECU's job is - protect the engine. Check every TO procedure in the manual - it says "Throttle - Full". Why? The DECU. It is managing the engine power. I love this jet, but real jets don't suddenly lose thrust like this - short of a bird strike or other damage. Thanks again for a fun little jet.

I see that JPTL throttle override in the manual. Thanks for pointing it out. I don't think that is the problem - it just seems that the power loss is there to "punish" the player (for lack of a better term) for exceeding limits that the DECU should be protecting in the first place. After all - the throttle is only a switch that transmits TLA to the DECU. The DECU controls thrust and maintains the engine within limits - if it is correctly simulated. I understand engine limits very well - and you could exceed the max continuous power time limit. But again that doesn't degrade the power the engine can produce. It just shortens the life of the engine. Somewhere in the Actual manual it even mentions how many minutes less engine life vs JPT. The key point is it is unrealistic for a jet turbine engine to wildly degrade its available thrust in a short time period. Short of taking damage of some sort. The throttle isn't a "destroy engine" switch. Older engines I fly usually just have a higher EGT to produce the same thrust. They don't loose power to the point you cannnot sustain flight. Which has happened to me several times in the curent release of the AV8B.

The DECS limits the engines RPM and JPT - according to the manual. In any case - even if it were possible to exceed the RPM or JPT limits - the result wouldn't be a engine that can no longer produce normal power - it would just shorten the life of the engine. Meaning it needs to be overhauled sooner. Every jet I've ever flown has some form of engine control that provides protection and often thrust management - so even a firewall forward "all she's got" situation won't result in loss of thrust. Most likely just a borescope after mx downloads the engine data postflight. Worst case a engine change but probably just a inspection based on what limits are exceeded. You are not going to melt a engine by pushing the thrust to max. There is something wrong with the way the engine loses power over time in the current version. It also seems to retain the JPT max from a previous flight even after a restart. Here is the section from the actual AV8B manual. 2.3.1.6 DECS Limiting For the F402- -RR- -406 engine the jet pipe temperature (JPT) is limited to 727°C for short lift wet, 703°C for short lift dry, 665°C for Combat, and 625°C for maximum thrust. For the F402- -RR- -408 engine the JPT is limited to 800 °C for short lift wet, 780 °C for short lift dry, 750 °C for combat, and 710°C for maximum thrust. JPT limiting inputs include JPTL switch, gear position, nozzle position, water injection switch position, air data computer (ADC) airspeed, and combat mode switch position. With gear down, or nozzles greater than 16° down, the short lift wet or dry datum is selected depending on the water arming switch position, if the combat mode switch in the main wheelwell is in the ENABLE position. If the combat mode switch is in the DISABLE position, DECS will limit rpm to 99 percent for the - -406 engine and 109 percent for the - -408 engine when above 250 knots. With gear up, nozzles aft, and combat mode switch in the enable position, the maximum thrust or combat datum is selected by the combat select switch. Selecting limiter off, then reselecting limiter on will result in up to 15- -second delay in active limiting of JPT under DECS control. During this time, the pilot must manually maintain JPT limits.

I'm seeing the same thing. Like the engine power rapidly degrades.

Updated Mission I found a typo in the script and fixed the stolen car beacons and reset them to the original frequency 49.00 FM. Cargo drops again work thanks to the user that fixed them. I also added some non-standard objects for myself and made the Huey's hot start. If you don't have these objects I believe they just won't show up. This should get the Huey guys beacon tracking working again. General Helicopter Operations updated.miz

I've tried the emergency fuselage stores release handle -Rumplast-, and can't get it to work like I expect it should. It will only operate if master arm is on, and bomb is armed. Anyone else have this problem? I think that it should drop the bomb unarmed when handle is pulled. I'm going to try a fuel tank and see if it works with properly with that.