DeadMeat
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Posts posted by DeadMeat
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@ZeeMan90 it doesn't matter how you wire the contacts on the new switch. Just desolder the existing switch and connect the new one. If you're replacing multiple switches at the same time you just have to be careful not to mix them up.
You may have to hot glue the OTTO switch in place or use some electricians tape if it doesn't fit snugly.-
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Good job. Enjoy the clicking
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On 12/16/2023 at 1:49 PM, WurzelGummage said:
Does anyone have a reliable source for the P8-111221C (that's the shorter, black bodied with red button) switch in the UK preferably.
According to the data sheet, that's a silver one with a short top.
The P8-141321A is in stock at Mouser (black casing, 4 lbf, red button, regular top like the P1)
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2 hours ago, Swiso said:
@DeadMeat Great thread and infos !
One question regarding the TM F/A-18 Grip.
Do you think it could be possible to substitute the 8 (or 4) -way trim switch to a similar one that add the press function too, like in the F-15E ?
Do you know the P/N of the equivalent OTTO T4-0016 but with the PRESS option ?
I looked at OTTO website but struggling to find the right P/N for such a switch.
Thanks !
Since the large T4 barely fit, the large T5 may not - if the switch body is any taller/wider. Same size = then it should fit..
I don't know what the part number of the real switch is. T5-0010 is in the F-15 (but which variant - and for which grip/switch?) according to parttarget.com so that is a candidate at least. According to OTTO, T5-0018 will give you the correct functionality and hat look, but it is missing the bezel with text.
The part number guide you're showing above is for the "mini" trim switches which are a bit smaller than the "large" trim switches you're looking for (think the large trim vs regular hat switches on the A10 grip). The minis are well documented and have meaningful part numbers but the large ones seem to be numbered sequentially or randomly. Documentation is very lackluster and they're generally not available for sale off the shelf.
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3 hours ago, MAXsenna said:
(..) So the shift register in the Cougar grip doesn't support it, and I guess neither does the base.
Well, I think there's still a few free inputs on the shift registers available, but then you'd have to solder the new CMS push switch straight onto appropriate the chip leg. The standard Cougar firmware is not expecting the extra switch however so that would have to be modded or the base PCB changed to something else supporting MMJoy or something home cooked and then anything's possible
That gets complex fast which is why I suggested simply repurposing an existing switch connection.
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23 hours ago, MAXsenna said:
Is it possible to make the CMS push on the original Cougar grip?
Interesting project. It may be possible to do, but it will not be easy.
First you'd need to swap the CMS hat switch assembly to a 4-way + push using either a donor part from a Warthog grip, a very expensive commercial or mil spec OTTO hat switch + a custom hat, or 3d print yourself a switch assembly.
Then you'd need to electrically connect the push switch. You're short one input in the Cougar, so you could sacrifice another switch connection, like the first trigger switch detent..
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On 1/26/2023 at 2:30 PM, Randarino2 said:
This is outstanding.....but....my slider switch is causing jittering when I try to zoom in to my planes panels in DCS. Did you find a replacement for the slider switch?
Randy
Nope didn't swap that one.
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On 11/16/2022 at 8:07 PM, goccia978 said:
chiedo un aiuto..non devo fare mod, ma si è rotto lo switch dell'aec, e devo sostituirlo, ma non riesco a staccare i tre switch dalla struttura dal warthog; mi potreste aiutare per favore ?
Google translate tells me you're trying to get some toggles out to replace a broken EAC switch... Well to get those switches out you gotta remove the legend plate first from the top. Then you can unscrew the nuts holding the switches in place with a pair of needle nosed pliers. See the pictures earlier in this thread for info.
The toggle switches are soldered to a PCB however so you're going to have to desolder the EAC, find a suitable replacement (look on Ebay) and solder that on.
Alternatives include buying a full new replacement PCB from thrustmaster to drop in or replace the whole board sort of what I've done here. You can use cheap toggles if you'd like - no need to use mil spec.-
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On 8/25/2022 at 4:27 AM, Tankrat said:
I'm Elite Dangerous player and found this thread while looking for a solution for CMS switch that went tits up. I decided what the heck why not upgrade all the switches so I ordered all the switches and buttons for my Warthog joystick. So far I have replaced The TMS, Trim, lever, pinky, index switches. The DMS, CMS, and pickle button are on back order
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I have one question on the CMS push switch, which TM wire was connected to the Otto switch at pin 5?
Thanks for posting the thread and enlightening me on my options instead of relying on TM support for out of warranty parts.
CMS push has two wires, blue being the common wire and black being the push.
You can join the blue with the yellow common for the 4-way part of the switch.
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8 hours ago, AvgWhiteGuy said:
Well this thread is a goldmine for anyone contemplating a Throttle disassembly/repair...thank you so much. I just lost my LASTE panel button and 3-way with nowhere in Shanghai to go for fix, at least that I know of.
This will make it quite simple for someone unfamiliar with it but with general electronic skills to replace.
@DeadMeat...any other suggestions ???
Cheers,
Since you lost both it sounds like a local short or a couple of pinched wires from the bundle that goes to the main board from the LASTE sub panel..
If you're out of warranty you might as well pop 'er open and have look. With a multimeter you can beep your way to see if there's a problem with the switches or with the wires or whatever... You may not need to replace the things completely-
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43 minutes ago, zhouyut001 said:
Is a full list of original switch model?I am not interested in replace more powerful switches, just wanna fix it.
OK that's fine. The point of this thread is to share my experience to serve as a guide if you're interested in doing a similar upgrade. I have no info on "fixing" the original switches. If they're broken I suggest you contact thrustmaster support or file a warranty claim if you're still covered.
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2 hours ago, Burt said:
Do you work on these for customers or just for yourself.
This is just a personal project posted to inspire and inform.
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4 minutes ago, Burt said:
Wow this is an awesome thread and wish Deadmeat was my neighbor. I have a question, I just got a new TM F-18 grip 2 days ago and noticed that the forward weapon position switch does not spring back to center. Will it through time spring back to center as it breaks in? Any advice ?
Thanks
There seems to be some grips that have a manufacturing defect like that. Normal behaviour should be that it springs back no breaking in required. There's a few threads on it here. Returning it under warranty is probably your best choice
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12 hours ago, Repvez said:
Hi I found this topic and I would like to ask somebody who have a little experience about the otto switches.
I have a Plastic (first version) TM F16FLCS/TQS and I would like to upgrade the whole inside , but I need some information . Those switches are usable for this Joystick also?
I only have experience with the Cougar, Warthog and Hornet grips (hence the thread title
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From pictures it does look like the FLCS grip is similar internally to the Cougar however (except in plastic) and as such I would say it is unsuited for the OTTO button upgrade. See here why: https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/212272-tm-fa-18c-hornet-warthog-and-cougar-grips-disassembly-and-otto-switch-upgrade/#comment-3988007
12 hours ago, Repvez said:The control panel would be an MMJOY2 with arduino pro micro. or do you know better softver for this panel?
The most needed thing would be the TQS erase head ministick. can somebody offer which switch would be the best to replace it? linear X,Y axis and push button.
There is any hall effect sensor version from otto or other cheapest solution? The PS3 minijoy and PSP doesn't fit in it.
like this:https://www.otto-controls.com/products/electromechanical-switches/transducers J2S2 or J4 ?
And also there would be nice If I find a good hall effect solution for all potentionmeter in the TQS.
Regarding the TQS upgrade this is a good place to look https://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4324042/f16-flcs-tqs-original-usb-conversion
I don't think OTTO transducers will fit the throttle if a PS minijoy wont fit. You can see the J2 dimensions here and measure your TQS to check: https://www.otto-controls.com/-/media/products/electromechanical-switches/transducers/j2transducerswitch/J2-Transducers-Catalog-Page.ashx
12 hours ago, Repvez said:And what about the Trigger there is any alternate to replace it ? I found this but it is also very expensive:
https://www.otto-controls.com/u2-016 or others
Yes that trigger is a good candidate but It will not fit easily though - it is going to take major surgery on the grip.
I bought one off eBay a while ago and I'm currently gathering courage to try and install it in the Warthog grip.12 hours ago, Repvez said:And do you know what the differences the T4 and T5 4 way switches except the push function? because there is many of them on the site but they have different part number but they look like to be all identical .
https://hu.mouser.com/c/electromechanical/switches/multi-directional-switches/
That is exactly the difference - the push functionality. I have already shared suitable part numbers in this thread for the various hats on the Warthog grip in this very thread: https://forums.eagle.ru/topic/212272-tm-fa-18c-hornet-warthog-and-cougar-grips-disassembly-and-otto-switch-upgrade/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-4510989
The clue is simply to look at the manufacturer's datasheets to decipher the part number. You cannot use the picture on mouser as it is only there as a general reference - not specific for the particular part you're looking at. Here ya go:
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For anyone curios about this - the T4-T I've mentioned in the video doesn't have push. I'm not missing it since the push unused in the A10.
If you really want to got the OTTO route there's a T5 hat that has push but it doesn't have tactile feedback. Alternately they have a TK-5 hat that does have tactile feedback but may not fit.
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Have a read through this. Similar challenge was discussed I believe.
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Good to hear and that's a nice tip for compatibility with multiple modules.
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7 hours ago, Supmua said:
Very nice. The only thing I don’t like about the default Warthog throttle besides the silly slew nub is the red button on the throttle grip which is rather hard to press, otherwise it’s near perfect. This mod looks like it would up the usability by quite a bit.
It does - I'd say most improvement is for the TDC and the EAC mag switch being sync'd with the sim. The rest of the mod mostly just adds fun "play value" and looks I guess rather than actual improved usability. Hat upgrades are way overkill for example and toggles - well the stock are pretty adequate..
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I had a little family extension/"upgrade" over the summer so I never got around to describing the upgrades for the throttle grips. I've had a few questions in private about them so I figured I owed some explanation about the whats and hows..
Left (outboard) grip first - this one is relatively simple to upgrade.
Pinky (master lights) switch
People break it all the time it seems so there a fair bit of documentation about how to replace it around here. Here it comes again then:Unfasten the mounting nut with a pair of needle nosed pliers (same approach as on the throttle panel) and unscrew the throttle side panel and pull it off. The pinkie toggle can now be removed from the side cover.
It is a trivial job to scrape off the hot glue and unsolder the existing switch and solder on a replacement toggle. Take note of the colors. I had brown = common, red at keyway side, black opposite keyway.
For mil spec replacement I recommend Eaton/Cutler-Hammer 8868K1 or 8869K1 (one or two pole versions) over Honeywell 11TW1-1 or 12TW1-1. The Honeywell has a very weak center hold compared to the Eaton which has very crisp positions. In the comparison below I used the 8869K9X (two pole, on-on-on) but it has identical feel to the K1. The X is the version with red seal - no "X" is black/gray seal version.
Only thing is if you use a Honeywell or a two-pole Eaton you'll have to trim the lower plastic screw tower a bit to fit the larger switch body. This is easily/carefully done with an x-acto blade in small steps.
Left red push button (AP engage)
Best to leave the original TM push button alone but if you like the P1 feel you can definitely swap it out for that. I recommend a P1-11111 (2.5 lbf version) which is easier on your pinky or ring finger or even better a P8 version if you can get it (shorter behind the panel).
Desolder/cut the original wires leaving as much length in place as possible. Push in the tabs on either side of the button body inside the grip and push the button out through the front. You may need to extend the wires a bit and stick 'em out through the hole in the front. Bend the P1 solder tabs out 45 degrees and solder on the wires. Push the button back in the hole. You'll likely need some electrician's tape and a bit of hot glue to hold it in place.
Your main problem will be clearance for the upper screw tower. Picture shows an old attempt with a P1-7 but the issue the same for P1-1:
The P1 back side will push right up against it (which is why the tabs had to be bent out) and the button top will protrude from the front more than the original TM switch. I find in practice that it doesn't get in the way though.. Once the button is firmly held in place you can put in the screw towers and screw the side panel back in place. Job done and happy flying. Check out the original video for the final look and feel of the upgrade:
Next up will be the right (inboard) side grip which is more complicated to upgrade.
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Cheers - yes I swapped all of them out.. Read more here:
Short story - you can swap out for mil-spec switches if you are concerned about durability. Hats and toggles alike.
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It's working
Anybody reading the my instructions above - you can now just use the latest version. No need to change the F18 lua yourself. The sketch example I provided for inspiration still applies though if you want to use the new outputs.
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2 hours ago, BlackLibrary said:
defineFloat("CONSOLE_INT_LT", 460, {0, 1}, "Internal Lights", "Console Lightning (light green)")will be (light renamed) integraded in F-18 for BIOS fork
Cheers. Recommend you change the rest of the indicators in that block as well, except
CMSD_JET_SEL_L
EMERG_INSTR_INT_LT
ENG_INSTR_INT_LTThey're just off or full on so might as well leave them as defineIndicatorLight
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Don't worry, it's not easy at first.
First thing - when you change your lua, you need to start a mission (any) all the way into the cockpit. This updates your reference documentation automatically, allowing you to paste the correct code snippets into your Arduino sketch.
Next, quit back to main menu and load up the reference doc. Go into advanced view which will give you multiple code snippets for each switch and light allowing you to do various things. This how mine looks:
Grab the code I highlighted (or the one that looks most like it) and put into your sketch. We will now have the raw value available for the intensity of the actual backlight in the sim. It runs from 0 (off) to 65535 (max). The PWM output needs to be in a range from 0-255 however, so we just need to re-map the data into a usable range with the handy "map" function. I declared a new variable at the top of the sketch for this purpose and then did the re-mapping as you can see below:
Spoilerunsigned int ConsolesIntensity = 0; //consoles lights intensity
#define DCSBIOS_IRQ_SERIAL
#include "DcsBios.h"
/* paste code snippets from the reference documentation here */
void onIntConsoleLightChange(unsigned int newValue) {
ConsolesIntensity = map(newValue, 0, 65535, 0 , 255);
analogWrite(6, ConsolesIntensity);
}
DcsBios::IntegerBuffer intConsoleLightBuffer(0x5550, 0xffff, 0, onIntConsoleLightChange);
void setup() {
DcsBios::setup();
}void loop() {
DcsBios::loop();
}Note that you will have to re-create the code with copy+paste from your own reference documentation, since I use a modified library. Yours will likely have slightly different names and addresses (highlighted in red), but I hope you get the idea
For extra credit, you can play with map function to cap the upper limit if you find it gets too bright (just set it to 180 for example), or you might even want to break it into segments to have a more gradual ramp-up, like so:
Spoilervoid onIntConsoleLightChange(unsigned int newValue) {
if (newValue < 32000) {
ConsolesIntensity = map(newValue, 0, 31999, 0 , 50); //slower kick-in to match sim
}
else {
ConsolesIntensity = map(newValue, 32000, 65535, 50 , 180); //output capped to lower max brightness
}
analogWrite(10, ConsolesIntensity);
}
DcsBios::IntegerBuffer intConsoleLightBuffer(0x5550, 0xffff, 0, onIntConsoleLightChange);
TM F/A-18C Hornet, Warthog and Cougar grips disassembly and OTTO switch upgrade
in Thrustmaster
Posted
Good to hear. Enjoy the clicking :)