Beamscanner
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Posts posted by Beamscanner
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It all depends on the type of RWR.
Some RWRs provide PRF audio, which means the pilot/RIO can hear it all. They can hear exactly what the radars doing in terms of scan, as well as hear PRF and PRF modulations which can help distinguish the radar type. So yes, hypothetically they could hear a radar change its scan time due to the scan width changing. Though they wouldn't know if the enemy switched to TWS or just lowered their azimuth/bar scan.
However, sometimes PRF audio fails the pilot. For example, High PRF tones are too high for the human ear. Same is mostly true for CW signals, like missile illumination. Thus, synthetic tones have taken over in many instances.
Low and Medium PRFs can be heard though. I'm currently working on PRF tones that I'd like to incorporate into the Viggen, A-10C, and hopefully the upcoming F-16.
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Your complex tones are interesting, but I'm not sure if they're realistic. I don't think any of us here has heard what it actually sounds like in reality (it was a notoriously secret part of the aircraft), so claiming that yours are "more authentic" is going a bit far, I think.
False.
While "realistic" tones maybe a hard reach (unknown specific RADAR parameters), "authentic" audio can without a doubt be made, so long as we stick to known RADAR theory. However, even then sometimes radar parameters are available, such as with the F-5 APQ-153 tone I posted.
I'm in the process of building a powerpoint to explain how to make authentic audio (and realistic audio if radar parameters are available). The authenticity of my tones is based on RF theory and RADAR knowledge. This should be done soon.
I've been working on this for over a year now. I've built a vector signal generator that can create a complex waveform that incorporates PRI/PRF, PRF Modulation (stagger, jitter, pulse train switching, etc), Pulse Duration, Pulse Duration Modulation.
I then use audacity to apply amplitude modulation to the signal. AM from antenna scan speed and antenna beam width / sidelobes.
I've also cross examined my tones with radar tones that can be heard on various youtube videos.
If the Viggen RWR has synthetic tones then you are right, and my PRF tones do not apply. But most older RWRs used crystal video receivers, which can very easily/cheaply output the received radar signals to a speaker. (The CVR already converts the AC signal to DC, and has all the components of an old CVR AM radio)
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ED Team,
ALR-56M has "Handoff" button. Which allows PRF audio pass through on the diamond threat (highest threat).
Most of this work you already did in the A-10C
If you could just copy the code you used in the A-10, and apply it to the F-16 only when "Handoff" is selected, many of us will be happy.
You dont need to make any PRF audio tones. Just add the A-10 code please, and we the community can do the rest.
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Always a chance my sources are wrong, but the fuels can have different densities but I imagine even with that it wouldn't make for that sort of margin of error. So I don't know, maybe the fuel density on wiki is wrong for the F/A-18?
Either way, in regards to JF-17, your not working with as much fuel as you first imagined :) AFAIK
Well I also thought there was 2 engines, so that whole post was jacked up :doh:
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There is only one engine.
HAHA I never really looked at the back. thanks!
I think the weight per liter for fuel in your calculation needs checking. Total aircraft weight for fuel is approximately 10,300lbs. 3000 liters internally, 3000 liters externally. ~5150lbs of fuel internally, so fuel weight per liter is 1.71 lb per liter. Obviously, my used data could be wrong, should only be taken as approximate.Yeah, I didn't see the total internal fuel on that page.
I made my estimates on liters (of jet fuel) to lbs using F/A-18 data.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonnell_Douglas_F/A-18_Hornet
"3× under-fuselage with a capacity of 13,700 lb (6,200 kg) external fuel"
"up to 3× 330 US gallons (1,200 l; 270 imp gal) Sargent Fletcher FPU-8/A drop tanks"
13,700/3 tanks = 4567 lbs
4567 lbs / 330 gallons = 13.8 lbs per gallon
13.8 / 3.78 = 3.65 lbs per liter
1100 liter fuel tank x 3.65 lbs = 4015 lbs fuel per tank
Not sure where I went wrong. But if the total fuel is 10,300 something I did botched up everything. maybe Wikipedia messed up on the 13,700 lbs from 3 tanks quote.
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I used a audio analyzer on my phone to run a FFT to determine the pitch. However, I tested it in the database here: http://www.viggentools.se/ as it easier to run through the various tones. Perhaps the tone in there is wrong..?
I've run some tests and the tones dont have the proper harmonics to sound like a radar. Your tones are somewhat between that of a pure sine and a pure AC square wave.
A perfect radar sound should be close to a DC Square wave with a <50% duty cycle.
additionally, it doesn't seem like you can generate a tone above 7800 Hz (MPRF tones should be between ~10 - 40 KHz).
I'd rather use my own tones which sound much more authentic.
I also cannot generate complex PRF strings like one might find a MPRF radar with your tone generator.
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What you guys are talking about is much deeper than yes/no.
It depends on the material and density of the smoke, and the wavelengths detectable by the IR sensor.
Short, Mid, and Long wave IF sensors have different capabilities in "smoke penetration".
Also, most IR sensors will not see through clouds.
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Edit: I’d love if someone would take the time to flesh out the database. Especially for fighters it’s a bit lacking
I can help you out
EDIT: Your code is generating square waves right?
EDIT2: \035 does not work when trying to trigger a 2900 Hz tone.
{ -- OSA (SA-8) Type_Level4 = OSA_9A33BM3, -- OSA (SA-8) Type_Level3 = wsRadarLongRange, Type_Level2 = wsType_GenericTank, Type_Level1 = wsType_Ground, Search = "\035-\035\035-\035------------", -- sidelobe (.1), null (.1), Mainbeam (.2), null (.1), sidelobe (.1), silence (1.2 seconds) Lock = "\035\035\035\035", -- steady tone Carrier_Frequency = 7000000, --Khz 7Ghz (Band 2) },I believe if I use "GS" it will play a "G" and "S" tones (ie 7100 Hz for .1 sec, 8300 Hz for .1 sec) rather than the desired 2900 Hz...
EDIT3:
Looking at ur notes in the lua
Each waveform is characterised by a ASCII-character (http://www.ascii-code.com/) -- starting from the '0' character (decimal code 48) and the decimal number represents the -- wave hertz in 100Hz steps, so '0' character is (48-48)*100 = 0 hertz (CW), character '1' is (49-48) * 100 = 100Hz, -- character '2' is (50-48) * 100 = 200Hz, character 'u' is (117-48) * 100 = 6900hz, and character 'ÿ' -- is (255-48) * 100 = 20700Hz. To find the character for a specific frequency, eg 2.8Khz (OSA), use the formula -- (2800 / 100) + 48 = 76 or 'L'
However, I just tested ur "L" code in audacity (via the tones here) and it generates a 1750 Hz tone, not the intended 2800 Hz tone.
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I’m on my phone so I can’t listen, but apart from amplitude I believe you can do that. PRF 2500 would be “\031” (Lua escape character octal 31 = ascii 25 = times 100 = 2500). So something like this:
{ -- F-5
Type_Level4 = some number you’ll need to find in database.lua I believe,
Type_Level3 = 1, --wsType_Fighter
Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane
Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air
Search = "\031\031\031\031\031------------", -- Beep half second then silence two and a half second as example. I don’t know what would be correct for F-5
Lock = "\031\031\031\031\031-----", -- Here I just increased the frequency of the beeps
Carrier_Frequency = 9000000, --Didn’t find the carrier frequency of the F-5 radar
Scan_Area = 130, -- Radar come, in degrees
},
Thanks, but I'll have to figure something else out. My goal is to mod other aircraft as well. And while your code works good enough (and saves alot of storage), I can't use it with other aircraft.
Thank you again for your quick responses. It says a lot about your team.
BTW, why do you use the carrier freq? It shouldn't affect the audio tone provided to the pilot. The RWR audio works just like an AM radio, it strips away the AM from the carrier RF. Also, lock tones should be constant with no breaks. Unless this is something unique to the viggen receiver..?
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synthetic
thanks.
So in SEA1 mode, does the radar combine raw ground return with synthetic sea targets? I noticed in the video that the ships radar hit looked synthetic as it had a clearly defined shape and brightness compared to the rest of the radar returns.
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I honestly blame myself.
ED never said how long it would take to bring features online. When I pre-purchased the EA Hornet, I just assumed it wouldn't take a year and a half to get TWS. I made the mistake of thinking "later in early access" meant something like 6 months.
I won't be making that mistake again..
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Looks great! Very excited for this product. When can I give you my money?
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Ok.
Well I'm making authentic audio that I'd like to use in multiple modules. I just lack to programming know-how to implement it.
Below is an example of the F-5 radar (search mode) I made using radar specs from a document published by NASA.
https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19770011366.pdf
Attached is a zipped copy of that audio.
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Does that code work with other modules as well?
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unfortunately I'm handcrafting radar tones via a python signal generator + audacity. So I want to be able to trigger the RWR to loop-play my audio files when a signal is detected.
My radar tones take into account:
-PRF (if available on public sources, or guesstimated via radar type & Low, Medium, High PRF modes)
-PRF modulation type (MTAR suppression PRF jittering, MTI PRF switching, "3 of 8" MPRF switching, etc.)
-Duty cycle
-Antenna Scan time/rate
-Antenna main beam/sidelobe illumination time
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Thanks for the clarification.
You know if the -56M has PRF audio?
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The "captains bars" literally represent the range and azimuth the radar is to acquire and lock a target.
Even if another target exist on the same bearing but different range, the radar should ignore it.
The radar should either lock whatever is inside the captains bar, or nothing at all.
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early F-16Cs had the same ALR-69 as the A-10C.
This option would allow users to add PRF audio as seen in this fantastic mod
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Which files do I need to play with to swap out the HB RWR audio with my own?
I looked over the RWR lua, but its like its generating sounds rather than telling the program to play an audio file..
Emitter_Types = {} Emitter_Types = { -- Fyll på! { -- Moscow-class ship Type_Level4 = 3, -- Moscow Type_Level3 = 13, --wsType_HCarrier Type_Level2 = 12, --wsType_Ship Type_Level1 = 3, --wsType_Navy Search = "88888----------", -- Beep one second then silence one second Lock = "3-3-3-3-3-", -- Beep every 0.2 second Carrier_Frequency = 4000000, --Khz 4Ghz (Band 1) }, { -- OSA Type_Level4 = OSA_9A33BM3, -- OSA Type_Level3 = wsRadarLongRange, Type_Level2 = wsType_GenericTank, Type_Level1 = wsType_Ground, Search = "LLLLL---------------", -- Beep half second then silence one and a half second Lock = "L-L-L-L-", -- Beep every 0.2 second Carrier_Frequency = 7000000, --Khz 7Ghz (Band 2) }, -- { -- SA-6 -- Type_Level4 = KUB_1C91, -- STR -- Type_Level3 = wsRadarAir, -- Type_Level2 = wsType_SAM, -- Type_Level1 = wsType_Ground, -- Search = "DDDDDDDDDD--------------------", -- Beep one second then silence two seconds -- Lock = "-8-8-8-D-D-D-P-P-P-D-D-D", -- Sweeping sound 8->P->8 -- Carrier_Frequency = 10000000, --Khz 10Ghz X-Band (Band 2) -- }, -- { -- SA-15 -- Type_Level4 = 28, -- Type_Level3 = 102, -- Type_Level2 = 16, -- Type_Level1 = 2, -- Search = "DDDDDDDDDD--------------------", -- Beep one second then silence two seconds -- Lock = "-8-8-8-D-D-D-P-P-P-D-D-D", -- Sweeping sound 8->P->8 -- Carrier_Frequency = 10000000, --Khz 10Ghz X-Band (Band 2) -- }, { -- Early warning radar EWR_1L13 Type_Level4 = EWR_1L13, Type_Level3 = 101, Type_Level2 = 16, Type_Level1 = wsType_Ground, Search = "444444444444444-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------", -- Beep 1.5 second then silence 8.5 seconds Lock = "4-4-4-4-4-", -- Beep every 0.2 second (this will never happen) Carrier_Frequency = 1500000, --Khz L-Band 1.5Ghz (Band 1) }, { -- Early warning radar EWR_55G6 Type_Level4 = EWR_55G6, Type_Level3 = 101, Type_Level2 = 16, Type_Level1 = wsType_Ground, Search = "444444444444444-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------", -- Beep 1.5 second then silence 8.5 seconds Lock = "1-1-1-1-1-", -- Beep every 0.2 second (this will never happen) Carrier_Frequency = 1500000, --Khz L-Band 1.5Ghz (Band 1) }, { -- Early warning radar generic? Type_Level4 = 0, Type_Level3 = 105, Type_Level2 = 16, Type_Level1 = wsType_Ground, Search = "111111111111111-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------", -- Beep 1.5 second then silence 8.5 seconds Lock = "1-1-1-1-1-", -- Beep every 0.2 second (this will never happen) Carrier_Frequency = 1500000, --Khz L-Band 1.5Ghz (Band 1) }, { -- MiG-29C Type_Level4 = 50, Type_Level3 = 1, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = ":::::------------", -- Beep half second then silence two and a half second Lock = "ff-----RR-----", -- Beep every 0.6 second, mid/high prf interleved mode Carrier_Frequency = 9000000, --Khz X-band 9Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 130, -- Degrees }, { -- MiG-29G Type_Level4 = 49, Type_Level3 = 1, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = ":::::------------", -- Beep half second then silence two and a half second Lock = "ff-----RR-----", -- Beep every 0.6 second, mid/high prf interleved mode Carrier_Frequency = 9000000, --Khz X-band 9Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 130, -- Degrees }, { --MiG-25PD Type_Level4 = 24, Type_Level3 = wsType_Intercepter, --3 Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = ">>>>>---------------", -- Beep half second then silence one and a half second Lock = "MM------", -- Beep every 0.8 second Carrier_Frequency = 10000000, --Khz X-band 10Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 60, -- Degrees }, { --F-14 Type_Level4 = 5, Type_Level3 = 1, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = "33333-------------------------", -- Beep half second then silence two and a half second Lock = "33------", -- Beep every 0.8 second Carrier_Frequency = 10000000, --Khz X-band 10Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 80, -- Degrees }, { -- F-15C Type_Level4 = F_15, Type_Level3 = 1, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = "99999------------", -- Beep half second then silence two and a half second Lock = "kk-----<<-----", -- Beep every 0.6 second, mid/high prf interleved mode Carrier_Frequency = 9000000, --Khz X-band 9Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 120, -- Degrees }, { -- F-16A Type_Level4 = F_16A, Type_Level3 = 1, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = "99999------------", -- Beep half second then silence two and a half second Lock = "JJ-----??-----", -- Beep every 0.6 second, mid/high prf interleved mode Carrier_Frequency = 9000000, --Khz X-band 9Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 120, -- Degrees }, { -- F-16 Type_Level4 = F_16, Type_Level3 = 1, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = "99999------------", -- Beep half second then silence two and a half second Lock = "JJ-----??-----", -- Beep every 0.6 second, mid/high prf interleved mode Carrier_Frequency = 9000000, --Khz X-band 9Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 120, -- Degrees }, { -- E-2C Type_Level4 = E_2C, Type_Level3 = wsType_Cruiser, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = "33333----------------------------------------------------", -- Beep half second then silence six and a half second Lock = "JJ-----??-----", -- Beep every 0.6 second, mid/high prf interleved mode Carrier_Frequency = 1500000, --Khz L-Band 1.5Ghz (Band 1) Scan_Area = 360, -- Degrees }, { -- E-3 Sentry Type_Level4 = E_3, Type_Level3 = wsType_Cruiser, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = "3333333333----------------------------------------------------", -- Beep one second then silence six and a half second Lock = "JJ-----??-----", -- Beep every 0.6 second, mid/high prf interleved mode Carrier_Frequency = 1500000, --Khz L-Band 1.5Ghz (Band 1) Scan_Area = 360, -- Degrees }, { -- А-50 Mainstay Type_Level4 = A_50, Type_Level3 = wsType_Cruiser, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = "2222222222----------------------------------------------------", -- Beep one second then silence six and a half second Lock = "JJ-----??--- --", -- Beep every 0.6 second, mid/high prf interleved mode Carrier_Frequency = 1500000, --Khz L-Band 1.5Ghz (Band 1) Scan_Area = 360, -- Degrees }, { --General category: Interceptors Type_Level4 = 0, Type_Level3 = wsType_Intercepter, --3 Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = ">>>>>---------------", -- Beep half second then silence one and a half second Lock = "MM------", -- Beep every 0.8 second Carrier_Frequency = 10000000, --Khz X-band 10Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 60, -- Degrees }, { -- General category: fighters Type_Level4 = 0, --0 = Any type Type_Level3 = 1, --wsType_Fighter Type_Level2 = 1, --wsType_Airplane Type_Level1 = 1, --wsType_Air Search = ":::::------------", -- Beep half second then silence two and a half second Lock = "ff-----RR-----", -- Beep every 0.6 second, mid/high prf interleved mode -- Search = "33333---------------", -- Beep half second then silence one and a half second -- Lock = "3-3-3-3-3-", -- Beep every 0.1 second Carrier_Frequency = 10000000, --Khz 10Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 120, -- Degrees }, -- { -- General category: ships -- Type_Level4 = 0, --0 = Any type -- Type_Level3 = 0, --0 = Any type -- Type_Level2 = 12, --wsType_Ship -- Type_Level1 = 3, --wsType_Navy -- Search = "2---------", -- Short beep every second -- Lock = "3-3-3-3-3-", -- Beep every 0.1 second -- Carrier_Frequency = 10000000, --Khz 10Ghz (Band 2) -- }, { -- General category: missiles Type_Level4 = 0, --0 = Any type Type_Level3 = 0, --0 = Any type Type_Level2 = 12, --wsType_Ship Type_Level1 = wsType_Weapon, Search = "2---------", -- Short beep every second Lock = "??-??-", Carrier_Frequency = 10000000, --Khz 10Ghz (Band 2) Scan_Area = 24, -- Degrees (this is a wild guess after 0.5 seoncds of Googling) }, -- { -- Everything else -- Type_Level4 = 0, --0 = Any type -- Type_Level3 = 0, -- Type_Level2 = 0, -- Type_Level1 = 0, -- Search = "1111111111----------", -- Beep one second then silence one second -- Lock = "2-2-2-2-2-", -- Beep every 0.2 second -- Carrier_Frequency = 10000000, --Khz 10Ghz (Band 2) -- } } -
Perhaps ED will revisit this when working on the F-16 RWR
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If JF-17 is finished, we will have most part of J-10A.
I think it seems duplicated to sim a J-10A.
All the more reason to make a J-10A! I plan on purchasing the JF-17, but I would still throw out money for a J-10A!
Who knows, maybe a J-10A development could be used to make ur sensor simulation even better!?
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J-10 or J-8II would be nice
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Because I guess that the A2G radar representation you are seeing there is not... ENOUGH, lets say, for ED standards. Or that is my feeling.
Note: I've seen DEKA video and the A2G mode you see there does not seem very realistic compared to RL footage ive seen, though I could be totally wrong. The Vigen A2G seems a better representation.
Viggen radar has a great simulation. But keep in mind the Viggen radar is different from Hornet and JF-17. The Viggen's radar only has one mode, and was specifically designed for air to ground mapping.
The JF-17 radar actually looks pretty good. What we saw was its poorest resolution mode, Real Beam Ground mapping. YT videos of the F-16 in air to ground mode show similar results as Deka's JF-17.
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The ALR-67(V2) was added to the Hornet with the "Engineering Change Procedure ECP-510".
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN/ALR-67_Radar_Warning_Receiver
This RWR upgrade added the following: "INS stabilization for accurate display in high g maneuvers and during high roll maneuvers."
Engineering Change Procedure ECP-510 took place in the early-mid 1990s.
Source: http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-squadron-vx4.htm, https://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/an-alr-67.htm
What this means is that the RWR symbols should move to counter the aircraft's own movement after initial detection.
ie during a high g turn, the symbol should smoothly slide in clock position to continue to match the bearing of its last detection.
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Radar Warning Receivers
in Sim Research
Posted
DCS does generally do a poor job at modeling RWRs, but your points are wrong.
1. Way off on FCR beam widths. And because of the inverse square law, RWRs can detect much more than the main beam of the FCR. But that's dependent on range. Also, multi-path can cause detections.
2. DCS F-15 and SU-27 RWRs will straight up indicate the targets range. IRL, RWR ranges are very course estimates that do not account for atmospheric attenuation or the noise of the local EM environment. The RWR may not even know if it detected a main beam, sidelobe or multi-path reflection. Or perhaps you're in a climb and the signal came into your RWR antenna's sidelobe and were thus weaker.
Ignoring Missile launches "beyond 40 miles away" may result in ignoring a missile launch 20 miles away too...
3. A short decay time, say 2 seconds, means dealing with new threat indications every time the enemy radar scans off and back on you. (ie F/A-18 symbol pops in and out of ur RWR scope becuase his radars scan is longer than your RWRs decay time)
Its just not practical. Especially when trying to correlate "new hits" to the same RWR threat.
HB's F-14 RWR is modeled very well.