etherbattx
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Posts posted by etherbattx
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Actually, the game basically uses a single thread for everything except audio. However, due to the way Windows distributes threads across multiple cores, it's now technically using multi-cores, but without any of the benefits, as it's only single threaded.
so, what you're saying is, we can limit DCS to two physical cpu cores (tell Windows not to distribute threads across multiple cores), and it will run correctly with no performance loss?
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I am trying to find true facts and not just rumors and what people think.. I currently believe from what I just experimented on and from what ED them selves stated that DCS ONLY uses 2 cores, one for the simulation and the 2nd for sound..
this is not correct. it maybe have been like that 5 years ago, but it's not that way today.
if you use a process diagnostic tool, you will see there are many execution threads and more than two of them get significant execution time.
if you want to test this theory yourself, set your cpu affinity to only 2 cpu cores and see how DCS runs. you'll know right away if it only needs 2 cores :)
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Best SSD to use for Dcs
Personally I think it makes a difference, if you're using an M2 SSD for your OS. But I never benchmarked my system with my old SATA SSD and then with the new M2 SSDi have benchmarked my system.
if you copy a lot of large files around between drives, it’s noticeable. but booting windows isn’t much (any?) faster.
for loading games, in a blind test, you’d be hard pressed to see the difference.
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Ryzen or Intel mid-range CPU
It all comes down to Performance per Dollarare you sure this is what people are looking for?
most of the thread posts in these forums are about finding and achieving the best performance.
for apps like DCS, it really is about 0-60 performance.
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Multi core support would allow to implement advanced weather, advanced AI, more graphical effects, bigger maps, more physical calculations, dynamic campaign, more ground forces AND improved performance.
double the cores , double the threads double the performance.
smh
it’s like free magic all rolled up into one.
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i hope so, but right now the large game development companies are pulling funding away from VR, claiming the market is to small and adoption to slow.
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i like your analogy.
the issue is that most software sees no performance increase from the preloading.
even intel own material claims a maximum of 20%, and you can bet they benchmarked that with the optimum use case!
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I had some issues with 16Gb RAM, Mostly fine for single-player missions, but if you go for multiplayer missions, fps was like 10-15fps. once i upgraded to 32Gb, fps changed to 60+
500% increase in fps from adding RAM?
what happens if you add another 16GB ?
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I just did a quick test of Sobek's thesis on 2 and 4 cores with HT on and off. This was at 1440p High settings.
On 2 cores with HT disabled the cores were both pegged at 100% the whole time and the frame rate varied between 110-120 fps and was kind of choppy on the frametime graph.
On the rest of the tests frame rate rate varied between 110-120 fps as well but was smoother frametime wise and the cores never pegged to 100% and the utilization bounced around on the Afterburner OSD between the logical and physical cores.
with HT, if two threads get assigned to the same physical core, they have to share the single cpu execution unit. that's why you only see a 20% increase with HT (optimum case) instead of 200%
sharing mean means coordination overhead and one waiting for the other to finish. that's why you don't get 100% utilization.
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91% RAM, should i upgrade?
16gb of ram here and i get 91%+ of ram usage during a free flight missionhow are you measuring that?
windows will take advantage of available ram and use it for temporary storage. even if it’s not needed by an application (like dcs).
to measure dcs ram usage, take a look at the “working set” size. that’s the amount of ram the process is actually using while it’s “working”
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Intel or AMD
Never asked for your help and I don't recall anyone else on this thread asking either.i was trying to help you understand that DCS is multithreaded and always has been. you said we were wrong and wanted to double down and argue.
i am happy to have this conversation with you in private, but i would ask that you stop spreading the “dcs doesn’t multithreaded” misinformation in the forums.
who don't understand that Hyperthreading is just a trademark name for multithreading.please reread what we posted.
Hyperthreading is NOT a trademark name for multithreading. it’s a hardware feature that allows some workloads (almost never games) go a little faster in very specialized scenarios. it has very little to do with multithreaded applications and for most discussions it can basically be ignored altogether.
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The CPU doesn't "have" a thread, the number simply states how many it can process quasi simultaneously.
i don’t think we are going to be able to help this guy.
he’s a youtube/wikipedia expert telling developers how the OS and cpu work.
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With the Rift CV1 the frametime was 1/90 + a little fraction of a ms. means 11.2-11.3ms so always a bot of loss. Now with the Rift S it’s 12.5ms + the same fraction. means 12.6-12.7ms.
those numbers look correct.
rift cv1 is 90hz refresh ->. 11.1ms
rift s is 80hz refresh ->. 12.5ms
you can’t change that. it’s part of the headset design
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Intel or AMD
If you were on a single core CPU with hyperthreading, you would see a differenceyes mostly likely. and it would interesting to see the amount of difference in the real world.
people sometimes think
2 hyperthreads = twice the performance
but since the cpu execution unit is shared and only able to process one thread at a time, the results are not even close to 2x
even intel’s own technical literature makes multiple references to “up to” 20% increase. and most likely they are testing with optimized workloads to enhance the increase.
for most users with desktop pc’s HT’jng can be ignored, other than being able to brag about how many threads they have! :)
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can’t you also turn down the settings to reduce the details and textures?
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Hyperthreading, refers to a very specific hardware technology created by Intel, which allows a single processor core to interleave two threads. Hyperthreading is hardware (by including an extra set of CPU registers)
yes, exactly. it's a hardware construct and enabled/disabled in the BIOS
HT's can not be created, adjusted, tweaked or targeted by a software program. to DCS, they are completely invisible.
when one of the DCS threads is ready to run, the operation system may schedule/assign it to any of the cpu cores (real or virtual) to execute. the only way you can 'adjust' or control this is through the cpu affinity setting (process lasso, manual adjustment in task manager, etc)
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What are you asking exactly then? I'm not sure I understand your question. You can't determine whether a program uses a processor's multi-threading capabilities by looking at the number of threads quantitatively in task manager.
That's not what multithreading/hyperthreading means.
i think you are confusing terms. multithreading and hyperthreading are two completely different things.
multithreading/multithreaded - a SOFTWARE construct where you break the execution task into separate threads. you create multiple threads with the CreateThread() API in the windows operations system. multithreading has been supported in Windows NT since 1993 and in Windows 95 since 1995, 12 years before Intel released the first dual core cpu.
a program is considered to be 'multithreaded' if it calls CreateThread() more than once and has more than 1 thread in the process.
hyperthreads - is completely different. it is a HARDWARE construct, where some of the fetch, decode work can be done by the core in parallel. windows supports this by treating the extra pipeline as a VIRTUAL core, to simplify the scheduling of tasks. you can NOT create hyperthreads in your program and you can't target them in your algorithms.
the setting to enable hyperthreads is in the BIOS, not the software program. it's done in HARDWARE and managed by windows.
when designing and writing software, HT can be ignored. there is nothing DCS or any other program can do do with or without a hyperthread.
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I know Adobe Premiere Pro uses multi-threading, maybe there is a FAQ on their website.
i agree with this. but again, you can see that yourself by looking at the thread count when Premiere is running ( i can send you a screen shot from my system you like)
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with regards to hyperthreading (HT). how does one create a program to use hyperthreads?
there js no api in windows to do this
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Intel or AMD
Multithreading use more on each of the cores.they might, but it’s not guaranteed. multithreaded programs have more than one thread and can use any number of cpu cores.
there is no magic to it. you can use cpu affinity to test this yourself. just set a multithreaded process to use a single core. the process still runs.
edit: maybe the following will help
do you remember Windows 95? it supported muiltithreading programs (processes with more than 1 thread) back in 1995... yet, there were no multi-core cpu's to run it on until 2005, about 10 years later.
multi-processing (more than one cpu) is not a requirement for multithreading or multithreaded execution.
the only requirement for "multithreading" is for there to be more than one thread in the process.
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DCS does not use multi threading
i forgot to ask.
if DCS is not multithreaded, then why does it have more than 1 thread in the process?
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I'm not spreading misinformation. You are getting your definitions confused. DCS does not use multi threading. I'm not sure why you keep saying this.
"In computer architecture, multithreading is the ability of a central processing unit (CPU) (or a single core in a multi-core processor) to provide multiple threads of execution concurrently, supported by the operating system.
YES! this is exactly what DCS is doing.
please, please open your favorite "process info" tool and see if the DCS process has more than one thread. (it does)
then look at the cpu usage of each of those threads. are those threads using cpu time? (yes)
think of this scenario - DCS can render graphics AND play at sound concurrently, at the same time on two different threads. this is literally the definition of a "multithreaded" application.
i don't know how to explain this more clearly
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Joking aside, does using a separate thread mean it can or will be moved to another core ?
unless explicitly limited by the program or user (cpu affinity), any thread, in any process, can be scheduled to run on any available core.
that is the main purpose of an operating system, to manage limited resources between various programs (in this case limited cpu resources).
if it didn't do this, you could not run hundreds of software programs (with their thousands of threads) on a 4-core cpu. there would be too many threads for the limited number of cpu's and only a few programs would work at a time.
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Intel or AMD
open a process tool and look at the “threads” section. you can easily see that there are at least 40 threads in the process.
next, take a look at how much cpu time is used by each thread. you will see that every thread has some cpu usage, so multiple threads in the process and they are each using cpu time
dcs is multithreaded.
if it wasn’t, you could lock it to a single (1) core and get the same or better performance.
DCS & Multicore CPU's
in Game Performance Bugs
Posted
we are not "in the dark".
if you use a process diagnostics tool, you can see that DCS uses many threads (execution contexts), and the way operating systems work, the operating system will schedule those threads to an available cpu core when they are ready to run.
if two (or more) one of them are ready to run at a given time, the operating system will schedule each thread onto a separate cpu core where they can run simultaneously and make use of multiple cores.
if you feel like it, you can constrain your system and limit what cpu cores you allow DCS to use, either manually or by using a tool like Process Lasso. some users claim DCS runs faster when you constrain it, but i haven't seen that (and it doesn't make much sense that it would)