mungo13

You mean those big airbus-style ones? Who knows, with properly set levers and bearings they can do a good job without heavy stickness. And I am sure than many people are not fans of spending hours by changing cams, springs, adjusting profiles in control software. Also - who knows what they used before. I have old Saitek ones and their too strong central detent is something I do not like much although I am used to it now, so such pedals could look like marvel to me. Btw. stickness - when I look on the idea of the VKB's throttle, it seems to be sliding one. If so, that awful stickness can be an issue as there is no force multiplier when moving them. I am now using TM TWCS that is known for this issue (and rightfully so) - but it is a cheap pure slider, some rollers or linear bearings can do a marvel.

At the same time there is fair chance that there were few reasons to invest money in development as their were still top dog. And later they were at least still considered to be by many as new companies were not so well known. Later it became maybe obvious to them that they need new product. I wonder whether TM is going to make new gimbal Anyway, I do not believe that it takes so long to make new grip, when it is compatible with old system thus you know how wiring of the internals should look like. How long does it take to companies to make new car, LCD screen, camera and so on? Of course, your budget and manpower for development play their role, but then the bottleneck is not design but resources

Nice, unfortunately a little bit short topis so far. So let's try to move on a little :D I am still digging a little bit of information, still have not made any final decision (and who knows if I ever will ...) but: I went through few forums, threads, video reviews, some more up-to-date some slightly outdated. Like: to name just a few. Thus once againt VKB vs Virpil? Aside from the restocking the shops (if I want that product, as it is not cheap, I would wait even if it is unpleasant a lot) which one and when? Built quality: Seems to be (nearly) zero issue for both within some limits. Looks to me that both companies make their products well enough that it is not something to be a deal breaker Variety: Of course, Virpil wins like professional heavyweight boxer compared to amateur. 2 bases, larger set of grips, mounts and throttle, rudder pedals, more extension choice. VKB lacks throttle and some accessories. Although VKB seems to be about lessen the gap, they have not so far and it still going to be there. - Virpil offers you also stand-alone base, VKB not. Customization: Virpil si TM compatible as is, thus you can use TM grips or make/solder your own, if you have another grip and you are able to assemble the electronic part. As for VBK you need not that cheap adapter. I do not know whether VKB comes with whole set of cams and springs or only when you buy extension (and they have separate shops for regions that might not be equal in terms). - VKB has one extension Virpil have 3 different ones that are stackable - To slightly increase confusion, there is debate about Virpil's WaBRD base and extensions - people talk about chances to damage internals and maybe a way too big movement of the grip with them, Virpil's webpage clearly states that possible damage to the grip by hitting table or tipping over due to that movement range is the only risk while the base HAS NO ISSUE with extensions (well, what with all available spring combinations?). Software: VKB seems to be clear winner even by people who prefer hardware by Virpil Desktop vs. mount/floor setup: Strange but according to the users even WarBRD base by Virpil is not that suitable for the desktop use due to the height of the grip. But they love it as a side grip on the mount. - VKB's one seems to be nice desktop and "floor" controller but nothing in between unless you modify the extension. The 2nd base by Virpil seems to work in all configuration though it is clearly expected to be used with the extensions. Now the last gripe: PRICE! (Note: I took some liberties in values, I am not trying to be exact to 1 € or less) - And this is the moment when my confusion reach its peak. I have checked both store for Europe. - "Cheaper" WarBRD base with the top grip is close to the price of the VKB controller (some 10% difference). - But setup with Mongoos base is some 25% (~100 €) more expensive than VKB set. I can buy rather expensive VKB extension and their controller roughly for price of the Virpil's "premium" controller only. And I look at those 2 bases as at the premium products. Moreover Mongoos base alone costs as much as WarBRD base with top grip (OK, there is 10% reduction when you buy whole controller). Is really Virpil so great that their set with "budget" base is nearly as expensive as premium solution from the other company? As a potential customer: Why to buy WarBRD+grip when for little more I can have premium VKB set while Virpil's one is way more expensive? My conclusion so far: 1. If you want just controller, buy whatever suits you more, what you like and what fits your budget. Anyway to me VKB due to the price seems to be better bargain. 2. For upgrade of the TM set or plug new F/A-18 grip to something, there is no clear winner. For WarBRD you will need stronger springs but it seems to be better desktop configuration than their own grip, for VKB you need to buy adapter and you have to buy the whole controller. Maybe here Mongoos base has its edge. 3. You want full set (joy+throttle+pedals) - for year (at least?): Virpil, unless you want to deal with 2 different systems/software 4. You enjoy to make your own devices - Virpil seems to be more "open source" Thus this is my review so far. So far no personal experience with the devices. Sorry for making it so long. If someone has more information, can add user experience, make valid comment about pricing - I would love to read it.

Looks great. Btw., do you know what purpose serve that lever in the US planes? In russian ones it is brake but US one usually use brake on rudder pedals (if I am right). It even increase options like use some hi-end gimbal and wire the grip not to TM boards but to use separate controller like LeoBodnar's and increase number of buttons and even some axis above what TM grips have.

Well, some prices on E-bay were not that low. 4/8-way: I know. I was just trying to set it in Il-2 BOS to some view commands and I suffered in attempts to make correct double-press. Most of the time instead of 45 degree 2-button press I got 0 or 90 degree single ones. As I have TrackIR and TM TWCS Throttle with 8-way HAT this is not an issue. It is better idea to modify thumb button into 4-way HAT as on real grip. That will be much more useful.

I know :) As I am still making plans for this project I even hit one little nasty hole: As a collector item these joysticks are not cheap anymore. Thus comes little devil with question: "Do you really want to touch your one and cut down its value? When it is closer and closer to the new grip made by Virpil(?) :cry:" :D Thus I am even playing with idea to use the grip parts to make a form and cast a resin copy (although modified and not 100% exact one) and use it for the whole project. I'll see Couple of years ago I barely missed a chance to buy a whole Suncom HOTAS set for cheap. I was quite unhappy that time, now I try not to even think about it :D:D:D On the other hand, I bought once my 2nd MS Sidewinder FF2 (so I have 2 now), it was a dust collector and now I am happy that I did it.

I am aware that HAT uses 4 buttons, just my suncom under (both?) "hats" has cross-shaped groove for the HAT's shaft that prevents it from pressing 2 buttons at a time. At least china-hat is alike. Anyway thanks, it seems that this is what I was looking for. I have seen that post and was unable to find it again. Well, I am still thinking about making box similar to real F-15 that would be used for the main PCB. It would also serve as an extension. Thus internal space would not be a problem. OK, time for some study, drawing board, parts-shopping etc. But holidays are coming, so it is just fine. :smartass:

Thanks for the answer. I have Talon version that has 4 "hat" switches (but they are 4-way position, not 8-way as normal HAT plus 4 buttons. What I am looking for is, whether there is some PCB schematics how to wire and solder the switches so they would be compatible with Warthog base. I think that some it this thread are the ones I am looking for, just I cannot identify them for sure. Or if there is complete schematic for Warthog as is, so I could i.e. use that selector switch as additional button and convert thumb switch into HAT switch as Warthog itself has more buttons/HATs than old Suncom joysticks.

Hi, may I ask few questions and for few advices? Just to explain - I am new in this field, now slowly gathering information and trying to figure out what to do what not to do and so on. I have little skills in soldering, PCBs and so on but I have someone pretty skilled, thus it should be doable. So my questions etc.: - I am already lost in ~60 pages, thus can someone point me (if possible) to rewiring F-15 to be Warthog/Cougar compatible? There were quite a lot of diagrams, PCBs and I am unable to pick up the right stuff Note: I have an old F-15 joystick (gameport) and I am thinking of buying Virpil base and instead of buying their grip, make my own as the base should be compatible. About those advices and other options as I have seen you here doing quite a lot of stuff: What would you find to be a better start? - above mentioned job - use the F-15 grip for MS Sidewinder 2 (I have it) eventually with buttons/hats wired to another PCB system like MJoy/MMJoy - get some 3D printer, make my own gimbal and some of those electrical parts as MMJoy? The last option could be useful also to make some simple cockpit with some universal boards, maybe throttle as well, but that would be another field to learn. I do not have budget now for everything so I am putting together pros and cons. And as I have said, I do not hurry, but I would like in some time to start somewhere. I am flying mostly WW2 era planes, in DCS I am familiarizing myself with Mirage 2000, although I have also Mig-21, A-10C, Su-25T in mind P.S. I have old MJoy PCBs and electronic components and hall sensors ready to put togther I just do not know if it is not too outdated for the major controller.

So finally Mirage + Nevada are added to my list. :thumbup: No I can start again setting up my joysticks (not to self: clean the dust first), set up all keys, plug-in TrackIR (hope it still works) and learn how the whole thing works. Did some quick flights ... there is long way ahead :pilotfly: Viggen is now No.1 on my "to buy" list.

I hope you wouldn't mind if I add same type of question by myself - I just do not want to spoil it here as there ise already couple of the shopping threads. I did some short flying (I am thus beginner to the DCS) - mostly in FC3 planes. Over the time I bought couple of planes (Mi-8, B. Shark 2, F-86, P-51, Mig-21, A-10C). But I am thinking about adding one more. I am not looking for (nearly) full-price ones, thus F/A-18 and Tomcat are out. At the moment the most attractive seems to be Mirage 2000 and Viggen. If for nothing else that because I like those two for a long time. I am not looking for competitive online bird as I am interested in offline game. So any advice? Thanks in advance.