BronzeBuddha Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 I'm new to DCS, and when doing DACT against 2 MiG-29s with heaters, I can't seem to successfully avoid the R-60 missiles. It seems like flares effectiveness against them is random. What am I doing wrong? Also, is the AIM-9P worse than the AIM-9M?
lunaticfringe Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 R-60: are you sure it's not the R-73 you're having difficulty with? The Aphid is a ludicrously short ranged weapon with a small FoV. Any real LOS against it, or an extension, beats it all day. AIM-9P v. AIM-9M: The later mark does not entail better performance. The P is a tail-aspect only weapon based around export to nations not considered "first favored" in status, whereas the AIM-9M is all aspect. The seeker design is different, thus creating differences in logic and operation. The significantly lower cost P was available in US stocks for purposes of training (since the tail chase mode was similar to the L/M it could be lobbed at drones at much greater abandon) and volume backup.
Pepec9124 Posted March 26, 2014 Posted March 26, 2014 You must be doing something very wrong if R60 can touch you. Just break hard if you think that someone has fired it at you.
Frostie Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 R-60. Just look it in the eye and watch it choke. "[51☭] FROSTIE" #55 'Red 5'. Lord Flashheart 51st PVO "Bisons" - 100 KIAP Regiment Fastest MiG pilot in the world - TCR'10 https://100kiap.org
BronzeBuddha Posted March 27, 2014 Author Posted March 27, 2014 No, I'm doing fine against the R-73 when doing DACT against two Su-27s. The R-60s though are giving me a hard time.
blkspade Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 You will quite consistently get smacked by the R-60 if in after burner, but they can sometimes be outmaneuvered if you have a decent amount of speed. I do the heater DACT vs the single Mig a lot. The basic trick vs the AI is to build up as much speed as you can in AB prior to reaching the within 4-6nm of the bandit. Preferably with an offset of 20-30 degrees. If you come out of AB at around that range they won't fire until they're about 2nm out. Break moderately hard and pop flares. The missile should miss, and its time for BFM vs the AI. Most of the time that results in them only getting one missile off before the merge. Other times they might get a 2nd one off, but pretty much inside rMin with you maneuvering and it misses without flares. Its pretty much the same scenario in the 2v1, you just have to figure out which one is lead since he'll engage first while the 2nd one hangs back. The trick after that it keeping track of the wingman so he doesn't get the jump on you after taking out the lead. http://104thphoenix.com/
blkspade Posted March 27, 2014 Posted March 27, 2014 No, I'm doing fine against the R-73 when doing DACT against two Su-27s. The R-60s though are giving me a hard time. The SU27 DACT isn't even fun since the AI, can't 'see' the AIM-9m at the distance you can fire them at the AI in burner. They'll fly head first into an AIM-9M fired at 8NM. If you're not in burner they won't fire until ~3nm. http://104thphoenix.com/
BronzeBuddha Posted March 30, 2014 Author Posted March 30, 2014 You will quite consistently get smacked by the R-60 if in after burner, but they can sometimes be outmaneuvered if you have a decent amount of speed. I do the heater DACT vs the single Mig a lot. The basic trick vs the AI is to build up as much speed as you can in AB prior to reaching the within 4-6nm of the bandit. Preferably with an offset of 20-30 degrees. If you come out of AB at around that range they won't fire until they're about 2nm out. Break moderately hard and pop flares. The missile should miss, and its time for BFM vs the AI. Most of the time that results in them only getting one missile off before the merge. Other times they might get a 2nd one off, but pretty much inside rMin with you maneuvering and it misses without flares. Its pretty much the same scenario in the 2v1, you just have to figure out which one is lead since he'll engage first while the 2nd one hangs back. The trick after that it keeping track of the wingman so he doesn't get the jump on you after taking out the lead. Interesting. When engaging with heaters I would turn off the burners once they close within 7 nautical miles, but even then, and even with flares, and with my flight path perpendicular to the missile's, I still get whacked by the R-60. Maybe my evasion technique is incorrect?
Pyroflash Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Interesting. When engaging with heaters I would turn off the burners once they close within 7 nautical miles, but even then, and even with flares, and with my flight path perpendicular to the missile's, I still get whacked by the R-60. Maybe my evasion technique is incorrect? Yes, you need to be maneuvering, not just notching. That doesn't work very well against heaters. Also, it will reduce energy available, but engine heat is the really big killer here. Make sure your throttle is cut to idle, and take into account the second or so it will take for your engine to actually spool down. Another important factor is actually acquiring the missile launch. With AIM-9's, you have to kind of learn to expect it, but the Russian missiles create a huge plume of white smoke that can be seen from quite some distance. Preemptive flares is also not a bad option if you have enough. At ~4 nm, you don't have a lot of time to do anything, so reaction time and precision is key here. If you aim for the sky, you will never hit the ground.
lunaticfringe Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 If the R-60 is going 7NM, something isn't just wrong, it's crazy. The Aphid weighs half of a Sidewinder, and a third or less of a Archer; there is no way, shape, or fom by which that weapon should reach you, even head on. It lacks both the power and the detection capability to engage a target at that distance, even in burner. Missiles are being worked on, but that is simply obscene.
BronzeBuddha Posted March 30, 2014 Author Posted March 30, 2014 If the R-60 is going 7NM, something isn't just wrong, it's crazy. The Aphid weighs half of a Sidewinder, and a third or less of a Archer; there is no way, shape, or fom by which that weapon should reach you, even head on. It lacks both the power and the detection capability to engage a target at that distance, even in burner. Missiles are being worked on, but that is simply obscene. Well, I didn't mean that they started shooting at 7 nm, only that I no longer used afterburners well before they launched their missiles.
lunaticfringe Posted March 30, 2014 Posted March 30, 2014 Record a track with Tacview and let's see what is actually going on.
BronzeBuddha Posted April 1, 2014 Author Posted April 1, 2014 Record a track with Tacview and let's see what is actually going on. I'm back in college, so I don't have the game on me anymore. In any case, looking forward to the F-15C AFM when I get back.
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