F-15 BVR discussion

[Geronimo989]

I just got F-15C few days ago and I love it. This is the first time I got more seriously into fast jet air to air combat.

 

I read the manual and have been watching some youtube videos, while practicing on that instant flight mission where you spawn a Russian fighter and go 1v1 on him.

 

So far my procedure is as such:

 

1.Use AWACS and/or RWR to get an opponent between my 1 and 2 o'clock (or 10-11), maybe 5k feet above him.

 

2.When I estimate that I am at about 25 miles away from him, or he starts locking me (fast RWR ping) I turn on radar, and go full afterburner. I also turn on ECM

 

3.When about 20 miles away, I point my nose towards him, fire off an AIM-120C, and put him again on my 1-2 o'clock. If he fired a missile, I start dispensing chaff and pulling Gs.

 

4.It will usually hit, if it didn't, I try to get another 120C in before engaging him in close combat.

 

5.In close combat I usually win using sidewinder/guns, because AI doesn't turn that well.

 

Now I find these tactics very effective against all Russian fighters except the MiG-31. He locks me in and fires a R-33 from over 50 miles away, forcing me on the defensive... I have to get him to expend all his R-33s in order to get him, and more often than not he shoots me down in the process.

Su-30 is also slightly more dangerous than the others.

Havn't yet tried against other NATO fighters.

 

Any tips on what can be done better, and how to fight the 31?

[Bushmanni]

First of all there's no point having radar off unless you approach from side or rear. In that case you would be out of his radar cone so you can make a stealth approach when your radar is off. But if you can see him in RWR he likely sees you with radar already and having your radar off in this case just makes things harder for you.

 

ECM is only useful against targets that are farther than about 28nm (this range depends on the radar you are working against) away by preventing them knowing range to you or locking you. They can still fire missiles in HOJ (home on jam) mode but there's not much chance of those missiles hitting you as long as DCS missiles are like they are. When you get within burn through range you should turn ECM off.

 

Against 31 you could use ECM and if that doesn't get you close enough then try notching. Notching is a maneuver that makes you invisible to radar. Basically you need fly perpendicular to the radar beam at lower altitude than the radar is. You can find more info with search about notching, how to use it effectively and work against it if someones uses it against you.

 

There's also existing threads about BVR where this post would have been more appropriate and where you will probably find all the info you need.

[OB1]

If you really want to hone your skills with any fighter aircraft then ditch the single player and go online. The amount you will learn in an hour online is worth far more than you can ever wish to learn with AI.

 

To say BVR with AI is predictable is an understatement. When you go online you will be met with many different people with many different skill sets, some will be like you learning the ropes, some with very rudimentary skills starting out from scratch giving you the satisfaction of their trail and errors and then there are people that will put you on the steepest learning curve you could ever imagine. Once you have experienced these things you will realise how little worth training against and defeating AI really is.

 

Now discussing BVR in a PvP environment is certainly interesting, the only tip I can give you is that you need to be a spunge for every bit of sensory information fed to you, hone your situational awareness, learn to adapt on the fly and keep on top of the information given to you and do not get fixated. Know when to engage and disengage. If its a procedure you are looking for then I'm sure there are plenty of people here that can give you their opinion on whats best.

[Exorcet]

ECM is only really useful against SAM's or long range fighters. With your standard tactics, by the time ECM comes on the enemy will have burned through and if their missile is capable of HOJ (Home on Jam) leaving ECM on is only helping them.

 

ECM vs the MiG-31 is another story, you'll severely clip its max range. If you want to give your AMRAAM a range boost, accelerate and climb (if you have the time to get to M 1.5 and 40,000 feet that should give you a strong missile shot).

 

One thing to consider tactically in a real mission though is weighing the value of killing the 31 or just avoiding it. It may at times be more valuable to just pull back when you see 31's approaching you.

[Geronimo989]

Thanks for the replies guys!

 

Tried MP today, shot down an Su-33 who left his jammer on for some reason. Now I see what you mean by helping your enemy with ECM :)

In general, is it more advisable to be above your opponent when engaging in BVR? I mostly flew ww1/ww2 stuff and altitude there is crucial. I imagine it to be less so in modern jet combat, because you can basically power your way up to your altitude ceiling in no time.

[Exorcet]

I mostly flew ww1/ww2 stuff and altitude there is crucial. I imagine it to be less so in modern jet combat, because you can basically power your way up to your altitude ceiling in no time.

Altitude is as crucial, if not more so. Altitude = energy, just like in WWII. However, there are some issues with the missile flight and guidance models that create some strange effects. When these will be fixed is TBA, but until then note that missiles don't take proper advantage from high altitude shots. Your plane does have an advantage from flying high though as you can convert the altitude to speed and speed is transferred to the missile on launch.

[Tvol]

When these will be fixed is TBA, but until then note that missiles don't take proper advantage from high altitude shots.

 

D:

 

So in other words: Fly faster, not higher. :(

[104th_Maverick]

So in other words: Fly faster, not higher. :(

 

 

No... fly faster AND higher ;)

[Exorcet]

;2116875']No... fly faster AND higher ;)

My motto is fly at the height where you're not burning all your fuel and fly fast enough to have Mach 1.3+ always in reach lol

 

I don't advocate flying low because of fuel burn and you have no where to go but up which costs energy, and while missiles are still in need of tuning, flying at altitude can give you some advantages when it comes to attacking. This goes double when flying with a team as you can make use of the F-15's TWS for realtively stealthy long reaching attacks. You'll also never reach your max speed at low level.

 

I start BVR at around 25000-30000 feet usually. Altitude usually drops as the fight goes on and it may end at 15000-20000 feet, or even at sea level.

[winchesterdelta1]

;2116875']No... fly faster AND higher ;)

 

Listen to this. I finally came to understand why speed is life. Off course i used it before. But i start to learn why it is life and to comprehend why it makes a difference now and use it to your advantage. Better late than never :)

[PastorJoe]

Hi guys, sorry for hijacking the thread but i didint want to make another one just for this somple question, were can i ingame make 1 vs 1 fight? Cant find it anywere, want to practice my gun skills.

[Exorcet]

Read about the mission editor in the manual. Setting up a 1v1 guns fight is pretty simple.

[Tvol]

The F-15C module even comes with a 1v1 Guns fight in there. Somewhere under "Single Missions" or "Training" or somesuch.

 

Using guns is pretty easy though. Stick the pipper on the target and pull the trigger. Preferably fill the pipper with their plane before doing so. It only gets really dicey when you get thrown-back to WWII-era targetting because they put some rounds through your computers.

Edited July 14, 2014 by Tvol