Hypnos Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 I report some data from a manual in use in flight schools: "The following combination of conditions is likely to cause settling in a vortex ring state in any helicopter: 1. A vertical or nearly vertical descent of at least 300 fpm. (Actual critical rate depends on the gross weight, rpm, density altitude, and other pertinent factors.) 2. The rotor system must be using some of the available engine power (20–100 percent). 3. The horizontal velocity must be slower than effective translational lift." [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]
lmp Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 For me the Hip is the easiest helicopter to fly, I love the stability. I certainly crashed it a lot less than the Huey, but I had more experience when I picked it up, so that may be the reason. Two main reasons why it could feel more difficult to someone than the Huey that I can think of are: - The VVI is scaled in m/s and not 100 ft/min and the speedometer in km/h and not knots, so if you're used to the Imperial units, processing them may be a little less instinctive at first. I had that problem at first. The VVI is also somewhat harder to read. - There's definitely more inertia. You can't stop on a dime like in the Huey, or accelerate as easily (which you would want to do if you're already in VRS) but then again, it also makes the helicopter more stable. I don't know if the Hip actually enters VRS easier than the Huey. I keep my descent rate within 2 - 3 m/s and I have no problems.
outlawal2 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) For me the Hip is the easiest helicopter to fly, I love the stability. I certainly crashed it a lot less than the Huey, but I had more experience when I picked it up, so that may be the reason. Two main reasons why it could feel more difficult to someone than the Huey that I can think of are: - The VVI is scaled in m/s and not 100 ft/min and the speedometer in km/h and not knots, so if you're used to the Imperial units, processing them may be a little less instinctive at first. I had that problem at first. The VVI is also somewhat harder to read. - There's definitely more inertia. You can't stop on a dime like in the Huey, or accelerate as easily (which you would want to do if you're already in VRS) but then again, it also makes the helicopter more stable. I don't know if the Hip actually enters VRS easier than the Huey. I keep my descent rate within 2 - 3 m/s and I have no problems. "I don't know if the Hip actually enters VRS easier than the Huey. I keep my descent rate within 2 - 3 m/s and I have no problems" That is the tough part for me as it is very difficult to keep the vrs low and for me to be able to keep it low enough I move my collective literally MILLIMETERS between safe and certain death... I mean I REALLY have to concentrate to keep this thing from dropping like a stone... On my system currently, VRS is more sensitive in the MI-8 right now then the Huey was when first released.. Enough of a PITA that I have stopped flying the MI-8 altogether which is a real shame as it should be a blast for me.. EDIT: Maybe tonight I will go home and try clearing out all axis commands for the MI-8 and try re-binding all of them. I tried this before but it was several revisions back... Edited January 7, 2015 by outlawal2 "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
lmp Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Right, that could be another thing. I have the Saitek Throttle Quadrant which has a nice, long throw, so I can be quite precise with it. I'm not sure it would have been just as easy for me if it weren't the case.
outlawal2 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Right, that could be another thing. I have the Saitek Throttle Quadrant which has a nice, long throw, so I can be quite precise with it. I'm not sure it would have been just as easy for me if it weren't the case. X-52 Pro here and it works fine with everything else just REALLY sensitive for the MI-8... Will try the rebind idea I stated earlier and see if that helps... Thanks! "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
Flagrum Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 (edited) Something maybe worth noting - although I have no real explanation for it: I saw a little "bump" in the movement of the collective, as if it were skipping a few millimeters at a certain point. The effect was repeatable and although at first I feared, my throttle could suffer of the dreaded "spiky-poty syndrome", it was way to precise at the exact same spot every time. I checked the axis config ... and it was set as regular axis. I changed it to slider ... and that little bump was gone! Seems as if there was some oddity whenever the axis transistioned through 0. What I can't explain is, why would it even work in both configs at all? *shrug* Anyway, maybe this is (part) of the issue you guys describe here? I mean, what if that "bump" occurs right there where it really matters? edit: But this was in the Huey, no idea if or how it might relate to the Mi8, though. And it was with my G940 throttle. Edited January 7, 2015 by Flagrum
outlawal2 Posted January 7, 2015 Posted January 7, 2015 Flagrum is absolutely right and I have always changed mine to reflect "slider" for just that reason.. Thanks! "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
outlawal2 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 OK went back and cleared all axis bindings and reset them all.. Set the MI-8 collective to SLIDER and checked off the box for INVERTED (since this is a throttle being used as a Collective) and this helicopter flies completely different now... NOW it is controllable.. Much different from the Huey or the Shark, but it IS flyable now when it wasn't before.. So anyone that thinks the MI-8 is too sensitive regarding VRS, go back and clear all axis settings and rebind them and you will have better luck! VRS is still modeled and if you can certainly get into trouble, but it is not the absurd knife-edge of smoking death that it was before I reset things.. Not sure if this works for all of the helicopter modules but worth a try if you suspect any issues with your controllers and any particular module.. "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
ricktoberfest Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 So many combat landing crashes that could have been avoided... ...then again maybe not!
outlawal2 Posted January 8, 2015 Posted January 8, 2015 So many combat landing crashes that could have been avoided... ...then again maybe not! CLEARLY.. You have seen me fly! LOL Well I will be revisiting this bird this weekend and I am confident that I will live much longer than I have in the past... Cheers! "Pride is a poor substitute for intelligence." RAMBO
AussieFX Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Something maybe worth noting - although I have no real explanation for it: I saw a little "bump" in the movement of the collective, as if it were skipping a few millimeters at a certain point. The effect was repeatable and although at first I feared, my throttle could suffer of the dreaded "spiky-poty syndrome", it was way to precise at the exact same spot every time. I checked the axis config ... and it was set as regular axis. I changed it to slider ... and that little bump was gone! Seems as if there was some oddity whenever the axis transistioned through 0. What I can't explain is, why would it even work in both configs at all? *shrug* Anyway, maybe this is (part) of the issue you guys describe here? I mean, what if that "bump" occurs right there where it really matters? edit: But this was in the Huey, no idea if or how it might relate to the Mi8, though. And it was with my G940 throttle. Fixed my G940 throttle issues in every acft. Thanks so much. :thumbup:
Viersbovsky Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Ah, yes it has been a while since that hint was posted by Flagrum... I switched to "slider" and it seems to work better. Now the question is: What does setting an axis to slider even do? Callsign "Lion"
Viersbovsky Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Setting an axis as a slider means it has now been translated into a linear 0-100%... slider. E.G. the software does not look for a "neutral" point along the input range. For example, if you set your stick X axis as a slider, DCS would interpret the stick in neutral position as the 'slider' sitting about halfway across it's 0-100% range. So it is like -50%...+50% in normal mode with 0 being neutral and 0-100% with slider at 50% being neutral? Kind of like signed/unsigned variables? Callsign "Lion"
msalama Posted February 6, 2015 Posted February 6, 2015 Kind of like signed/unsigned variables? Yes, exactly, except that with a slider your neutral is at 0. The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
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