Notching tutorial/advices

[Ktulu2]

For a long time, my BVR engagements could be resumed to : see the other, lock him, realised he locked me too, launch at some point, and the one that was still alive at the end was the one who had the better timing, as going defensive too early/late and you'd die.

 

I'm now 1year old to the game, and I have started to think to the engagements I had where good pilots wrecked me. I think the best way to summerise that is a quote that pretty much said this : A good pilot will use his superior tactics to avoid equal fights where he'd have to use his superior skills. I have tried to get into stealth-ish kills to ''surprise'' the ennemy so he'd have no time to react. It worked out very well and got me a night in the 104th where i had 17kills and 2 deaths. PROBLEM IS : I was using the abundance of mountains to acheve that stealth, mountains that won't always be there, or sometimes be too small to save my ass, or sometimes I will get spotted and will have to go Head 2 Head as I usually did. So i got back to thinking table/reminding old fights with great ones. The solution I got was the notch : someone who makes you loose your lock/painting on radar of your target at +/- Rmax will have a great advantage on you if he kept an idea of where you where.

 

(this is the part that lazy readers must read)

I know the basic of the notch : be lower and keep the target to my 3/9.

But I'd like help on 2 thigns :

1-How to effectively practice it (is there something else than doing it 50 times on a public server)

 

2-How to effectively reach my goal : how/when to use it in a fight, how to keep an idea of where my target is when i'm out of visual range and without radar (as I wont see him), how to get him to completely loose me, and mabe how to do the notch if it's more complicated than what I said.

 

Thank you for help, this is very appreciated! :helpsmilie:

[Ktulu2]

Just to clarify, I'm thinking of a scenario like a normal head2head, fairly low (0-7000' high) where we both have a lock on each other. Once we get close to each other (20/15nm (not sure of the range, would be nice to havve advices on that too)). I notch him, than comback head to head, but during the time he lock me again I launced A missiles inside/at the max of NEZ and get defensive before he gets to fire.

Is this a good Idea? Is there better? Is that possible? How do I do that? and all the questions I asked in the first post.

 

I basically want a general and flexible receip for standart head to head to get an advantage and change a fair fight into a fight where I have an advantage.

[Stuge]

I think notch is overrated.

 

In open terrain, there's absolutely no guarantees you won't be locked again after notching by either your enemy or his wingman.

 

If my target notches while I'm on an attack dive, I may also zoom in and keep visual on him, this is possible at surprisingly far ranges. :) This way I can close in with stealth.

 

To answer your questions:

 

1) You could practice with a friend

 

2) Experience will make you better at "guessing" where the target will most likely be, after you have lost your lock.

Edited January 11, 2015 by Stuge

[Ktulu2]

I know about those things

 

Hadouken, A good notch is hard to do, this is why i'm asking for advice. I know I have to get out of the notch, the point is that he sees me after its too late for him. If he does launch before I notched, the missile has to go to me at an angle of 45°, and if I try to notch at 20/15 nm, that missile isn't a threat and will never kill me.

 

Stuge, I'm talking about a 1v1 head2head, if he has a wingman, i'll know that and I won't be notching. Keeping visual is possible, but that far and on the ground (as you're looking down) its quite hard to keep him (although its possible).

 

The problem with higher is that you have 2 choices :

1-you keep your radar on at all time to get a good SA, but you will often get into 2/3v1 on big servers because of your radar being on, and flying at more than contrail height is a set up for getting an AIM-9/R-73 before you know someone's there.

2- You turn radar on and off, but might also end up in a bad position because you lack the SA you'd get with the radar.

That's why I think flying high is only rarely effective, plus its much easier to defeat a missile with a mountain :).

 

But thank you for your help.

[dooom]

see my sig for a video on the notch i made with friends in the 159th

[Stuge]

flying at more than contrail height is a set up for getting an AIM-9/R-73 before you know someone's there.

 

Now zis one i strongly disagree with! :) I have a habit of flying straight from base to bullseye at 40000ft, and I don't even remember when someone got a sneak shot at me from that situation. Now obviously if you engage someone, dive, turn around all over the place, and so on.. that's when you get sneak killed. This can obviously be avoided by extending back enough after an engagement, and having a wingman check your surroundings.

 

Of course sneaking around low and pouncing on everything that moves is just great, i love doing that too :D

[Ragnarok]

That's why I think flying high is only rarely effective...

 

 

 

 

You're wrong. Every situation has its implementation.

None of tactic is not good enough, because sooner or later enemy knows to adapt. It is important to frequently changed tactics and recognize the situation, and then select the maneuver.

This would not be interesting if there were perfect recipe. For your every maneuver, anyone can say "yes, but...".

The best tactic is to know all the laws of the game. Your notch is just one of them.

 

Note! Notch is the real thing, but in reality, head 2 head and one 2 one is an extremely rare situation. Therefore, solving your problem is not too important, but it is useful to know as a basic rule!

[Ktulu2]

Dat music XD

Good Video. That answers for how to do the notch, I still don't know for tactics to use it.

 

Is what I described (Once we get close to each other (20/15nm (not sure of the range, would be nice to havve advices on that too)). I notch him, than comback head to head, but during the time he lock me again I launced A missiles inside/at the max of NEZ and get defensive before he gets to fire. )

Is more than what a notch can do, or is it possible?

 

Also Can I get tips if there are some to keep some idea of where the bandit is than visual?

[Ktulu2]

You're wrong. Every situation has its implementation.

None of tactic is not good enough, because sooner or later enemy knows to adapt. It is important to frequently changed tactics and recognize the situation, and then select the maneuver.

This would not be interesting if there were perfect recipe. For your every maneuver, anyone can say "yes, but...".

The best tactic is to know all the laws of the game. Your notch is just one of them.

 

I agree, the reason why I say it is rarely effective is because (at least by my personnal experiance) flying high will get me into 3v1 far more often than flying low because I do not need my radar on when I fly low. If we are in a 1v1 high, sure, its a good thing to fly high, but I have survived to being surronded by maybe 10 bandits (relatively close, track was corrupted, so couldn't run tacview) and i got 5 kills by sneaking into mountains. That would never have happened flying high.

[Ragnarok]

...flying high will get me into 3v1 far more often than flying low because I do not need my radar on when I fly low. If we are in a 1v1 high, sure, its a good thing to fly high, but I have survived to being surronded by maybe 10 bandits (relatively close, track was corrupted, so couldn't run tacview) and i got 5 kills by sneaking into mountains. That would never have happened flying high.

Sneaking is well on the server that fly unorganized individuals. That's why you have success. Against organized squadron when flying high, you have no chance for either kill.

Sneaking is like "fishing in troubled waters". Often you're lucky, but always you have less solution. Superior fight is when you have a lot of solutions, as high fight. When you're high, you have a 1vs.5, consider that this fight 1vs.1 with the primary target. The only difference is that the attack must to last quick, but when you're high and that's enough. If you want to detain as when sneaking, it can not.

[Ktulu2]

In a 1vs5, i'm running away, even if its not an organized flight lol, but i'll give another shot at flying high. But thats not what I want to know, This is about notching

[Ragnarok]

...but thats not what I want to know, This is about notching

You must understand, forum is a good place to learn a lot, but the best knowledge is not gift. The best knowledge is stealing. If I see that you listen to me more than himself, I'll tell you all wrong, and I will kill you! :D Joke

[Stuge]

There's too much stuff about high altitude BVR.. i guess someone said BVR is about who values their lives more. Because if every pilot in a battle is skilled and _careful_ they should be able to stay out of trouble. Thus resulting in big engagement, but very few, if any, planes shot down.

 

However, when you fly on a public server, people (including myself) don't value their virtual lives excessively, they may prefer to go into action with big risk. Add to that less than decent BVR skills of some pilots, and you have a battle where shooting down (and getting shot down) is suddenly quite easy.

 

Bottom line: if your BVR skills are good, and your self preservation instinct is strong, you should be able to take off, score a kill(or participate in a battle in some way at least), and RTB safely. If you stay and try to score more kills... well, the more you hang around the dangerous areas, the more likely someone will shoot you down before you decide to try RTB, regardless of combat skill level :D

 

In this context, sneaking in mountains becomes less safe, because around any corner may lurk danger. At high altitude however, if you take good measures (scan everywhere, especially low alt), you shouldn't be surprised so easily. You detect danger in time, and can react to it properly :) Scoring a kill is not mandatory, but in a public environment it becomes inevitable. It's the staying alive part that's more important to pay attention to..