Has anyone successfully landed on dry lake bed runway in next to Groom Lake in 2.0?

[DaveRindner]

I keep cracking my landing gear on dry lake bed with Mig 21. I sucessfully landed SU-27 and A-10C on dry lakebed runway next to Groom Lake. But no such luck with MIG-21. Gear collapses as if my vertical velocity exceeded limits.

[agentkgb]

Did that several times with the Fishbed successfully. I used the same landing method as usual, normal glidepath around 350kph, flare around 320kph and slowly pull back on the throttle. The only thing I found more difficult landing on the lake bed, that it is hard to keep the plane centered on the runway on the final, from lower altitudes the edges of the runway can be hardly seen. I can imagine, that you don't realize that you are off the runway and the gear collapses on the bumpy surface.

 

- KGB -

[DaveRindner]

I finally did it once then twice. But my technique and skill are not yet reliable enough. On runway its not hard to land, provided VV and gross weight are within limits. But with dry lakebed, judging height off the ground below 10 meters is difficult and very easy to allow VV to increase precipitously, cracking the gear. Keeping the IAS, AOA, VV, and cockpit sight picture correct, all at the same time is a challenge. The problem, I am finding is that texture map of lakebed is low , even at highest setting, that low to ground, so visually gauging height, as I trained myself, for paved runways, does not work well for lakebed runways. It appears as solid color.

[DaveRindner]

Yes the Mig-21 landing speed and runway visibility. #1 killer of youung Indian Air Force pilots. You would think that IAF would assign its best of the best (with honors) to its SU-30 MKI, as that its IAF's premier AA/AG aircraft. Not so. SU-30has IAF's best safety record, becouse its relatively new, low hours, and is easy to fly and land. IAF sends its best pilots to its MIG-21 squadrons. IAF uses SU-30 and MIG-21 as a low/high team. F-15C pilots, on exercises with IAF found that at low alt. MIG-21's size makes it difficult to detect, visually and with radar, provided that the gadget is not AESA. New V3 series AESA radars see everything, regardless of altitude. But still F-15 and F-16 pilts when faced with two prong penetration attempt by SU-30/MIG-21 team tend to prioritise SU-30 allowing MIG-21 to sneak up low. Then MIG-21 use its climb ability to get into firing position. Luftwaffe used its legacy MIG-29 and F-4 as similar low/high team to engage superior Typhoon, F-15C/E, F-16C Blk 50, opponents at Red Flag and in EuroEx exercises.

Mind you though, that these tactics require years of practice to refine and for pilots to understand in complex SA environments.

Edited February 4, 2016 by DaveRindner

[grunf]

Landing there is a bit tricky because I could hardly see the runaway, unless I came down rather steep. But the landing itself was pretty uneventful. :D

 

I've tried landing at Tonopah, but couldn't make it. Each time I crashed and burned on touchdown.

[Nerd1000]

I finally did it once then twice. But my technique and skill are not yet reliable enough. On runway its not hard to land, provided VV and gross weight are within limits. But with dry lakebed, judging height off the ground below 10 meters is difficult and very easy to allow VV to increase precipitously, cracking the gear. Keeping the IAS, AOA, VV, and cockpit sight picture correct, all at the same time is a challenge. The problem, I am finding is that texture map of lakebed is low , even at highest setting, that low to ground, so visually gauging height, as I trained myself, for paved runways, does not work well for lakebed runways. It appears as solid color.

 

you could try checking the radar altimeter, or even better setting the 'pull up' warning to 10m. That way when you hear the low altitude warning tone you know you are 10m above the ground and you need to reduce VV to 1-2 m/s.

[DaveRindner]

Yeah, I find that anisotropic filtering of Groom Lake lakebed runway lines blurs them into nonexistense unless you get very close. So I trained myself, in both day and night , to use land and texture cues. The runway threshhold, from a slant distance has a particular fuzzy look that is subtly different, but different enough to make out. Also the wide lakebed runway is to the right of the 'house' that sits at end/start of wadi(dry stream bed).

Its hardest to land at night, in A-10C using night vision, as it screws up all drawing. it is very difficult to land at night with no googles using just landing lights.