Helo Warthog collective issue

[FireCat]

Hi fellow pilots. This is my first thread.

In DCS 2.5 Nevada and Caucasus.

I am interested if anyone else has problems with the through range (or lack of it) and sensitivity of the collective in the Huey and the Gazelle. (For Ref: I am using a TM Warthog Throttle and Stick with CH Pro Pedals.)

 

No matter which controls I set as the collective (left or right throttle or the slider) I have tried every possible combination of settings (curvature/saturation/deadzone etc) set as a slider, as slider reversed. I am not new to key and axis setting/layouts I used foxy with my cougar for years. (I don't use Target in DCS)

 

I use the slider on the warthog rather than the left or right throttles its easier to grip between my thumb and finger for better controlled micro movements (no curve, sat: or dead zones) The range travels about 49% before anything happens (a little Huey rotation) then at 50-51% the Huey hovers on its skids no higher rudder and Taxi (scrape along the floor) there are times the Huey has tilted forward and travels along with the front skids and nose sunk in the tarmac floor.

 

Micro increase the collective between 52-54% to hover at 1-3ft over shute to 55% and wham 20-30ft in a split second. Keeping the Torquemeter Indicator out the red zone (50 on the torquemeter) needs the same micromanagement with the through range over 55% using a tiny percentage of movement. With a range from 0-50 on the torquemeter to the red, I am only using about 12% (if that) of my slider and throttles through range to cover this none of which happens until after 49% of the collective (throttle) movement.

 

To be honest I sometimes think the collective may as well be a 3-way switch. 1/ No collective. 2/ Skid/hover Taxi. 3/ Elevate to 30ft in a split second and fly away.

 

This can't be right. Once up I have no problem rattling along even executing twitchy bumpy landings but the first 49% does nothing of the available 100% through range and then the next 12% is micromanaging range between aching thumb and finger. For all intense a 3 way switch.

 

I do not have this through range problem with anything other than helo's I downloaded TM calibration tools and checked both stick and throttle OK.

 

So is this how the collective actually is on a helo? Personally, I can't believe it is.

(Maybe for another thread.) What about the sinking into the Tarmac floor?

 

Any input would be helpful even if its "I have to live with it, its a TM glitch with the Warthog" or is there a way to tweak some settings in the code. Maybe Belsimtek and Polychop need to look at this with a patch for the Warthog if it only effects that model. Any advice respected.

 

My spec's

Windows 10 Version 6.2 (Build 9200)

Motherboard MSI Z270 GAMING M5 (MS-7A78)

CPU Intel Core i7-7700K Kabylake CPU @ 4.20GHz

Memory (RAM) 16341 MB

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1080

C: 256GB Intel Optane M.2 Pcie SSD PEKKW256G7 (OS + Main Drivers GPU, joystick etc.)

D: 240GB Samsung SSD 840 (DCS only)

E: 1TB WD 10 EARS-22y5b1 usb (backup/storage)

F: 2TB WD 2003FZEX-0 (games/programs)

Oculus Rift VR + Benq 28" HDMI Display.

[Art-J]

Hello there and welcome to the forum.

 

I don't own any of these two choppers myself (only the Mi-8 ), so if the slider responds OK in Windows calibration panel and in the in-game input indicator (Ctrl Enter), I guess that would mean their collectives are indeed programmed to behave that way.

 

You'd be better off searching around and/or asking in the UH-1 & Gazelle sections of this forum then.

 

That being said, I admire your daredevil desperation to use the slider of your THW for collective :D. I use the throttles and even with their much longer throw, the linear-to-angular ratio is still much bigger than in the real thing, making precise collective operation more difficult than it should be (too responsive). 1-2 cm of movement can make a difference between a hover and plummeting to the ground in VRS. And that's in the lumpy and heavy flying shoolbus the Mi-8 is, I imagine must be even more challenging in toy-like Huey and Gazelle.

 

I wouldn't dare to use the crappy Warthog slider with its center detent to do the same thing even if someone paid me, especially in DCS Gazelle, which, I believe from reading forum, is twitchy as F :D.

[DeJohn]

FireCat;

 

 

This has been an arduous subject ever since DCS and esspecially the Uh-1H module came out. 'To curve or Not to curve', that is the question. The true answer is...It is a personal choice item, there is no right or wrong about it. It depends on your equipment, your flying style and most importantly your physical abilities. I own several devices (Warthog set, Logeitech joystick, Saitek throttle quadrants), and I do use curves for some aircraft, but not for others. For the huey collective I do alter the default curve because there is an area where I need more precise control than the default DCS values give me.

 

No one can tell you what or what not to do, we can only give suggetions as to a starting point for you to find what works for you. After I read your post I went and re-did some curve tests I've done many times before. Mainly to see if my previous findings had changed with the new 2.5 beta. Good new is with the exception of a few values slightly different(not enough to change over all results), ED and DCS are very consistant. My hat is off to them for their tireless work.

 

So I offer to you this mornings results as a starting point finding your sweet spot.

 

 

A note here! Any time you open the axis tune window no matter whether your control set default or as slider, the window will always open with it in the default center (or 50%) position. To see actual position you have on your throttle/collective you need to barely touch the throttle for your readings to show. If you click the user curve box, at the bottom of the window you'll see 11 sliders appear ranging from 0 to 100. This is the default scale I used for my tests, also remember that 100 is collective fully down and 0 is fully up.

 

Test Parameters:

Airport - Batumi (with the editor's default conditions)

Aircraft - Uh1-H.... (1) Empty (as light as I could get it.) (2) Max load (as heavy as I could get it staying within max weight limit).

Axis device - Throttle on Logitech Extreme 3D joystick, it was on my desk. (its has a potentiometer not a Hall sensor)

 

Remember lower value = more input

 

 

(1)Empty (2)MAX WGT

 

1st test - to see at what point the needle on the Torque gauge started to move, and correspond this to the scale.

 

(1) 91 (2) 90

 

2nd test - to see at what point the huey became light on its skids.

 

(1) 40 (2) 35

 

3rd test - to see when the huey hovered at 5ft (standard height for hover check)

 

(1) 35 (2) 25

 

4th test - to see when needle red lined.

 

(1) 12 (2) 12

 

So what did I find out about the default scale for the device I used...

 

1- from 100-90 had no effect in game, and below 10 would make no difference since I'd be red lining torque and Ext temp, engine failure in a few minutes anyway.

2- my sweet spot for control occurs between 40 (light on skids empty) and 25 (5ft hover at max weight).

 

If I choose to place my sweet spot in the center of the scale, my scale looks like this...

 

10 15 20 25 30 35 40 50 65 75 90

 

I did enter these numbers into the scale as shown, no dead zone, no changes to saturation, and ran a flight with a standard loadout (pilot, copilot, door gunners and 60% fuel). The result was I had no trouble getting into and maintaining a hover, take off or landing as I had fine control over the inputs where I needed them, even with a cheap analog potentiometer.

 

Hope this info help you find your sweet spot.

Edited February 7, 2018 by DeJohn