F/A-18C Hornet "Waypoint Set" to Mission Editor!

[Fri13]

In my humble opinion, one of the serious missing features in the DCS Mission Editor (ME) is the way how waypoints are done.

They are always tied to a group. And group as is, is already fairly limited by their communication etc, but it is another thing than this.

 

What I think DCS requires is a way to add a waypoints, like the Hornet "waypoint Set", without any groups assigned them.

 

The mission editor would allow designer to add a waypoints on map and give them all the common features like altitude, speed, time and other assignments and tasks that special properties would give. It would be up to the assigned aircraft/unit to decide can they use the special properties etc by their abilities, or do they just use the waypoints as such.

 

This would allow a mission designer easily to create a dozen of different waypoints to target area, out from there or around. These would be "logical waypoints" or what ever.

The designer would then only need to add triggers when does the unit change from given waypoint set to another and on what specific waypoint number in that, and do they follow what properties in that waypoint set (like make it to skip advanced waypoint properties between 4 and 6 waypoints).

 

Such a feature that now Hornet is receiving by allowing to use different sets for waypoints, would make DCS far far dynamic and easier to build complex missions, as one unit/group would not be locked to one waypoint route.

 

Mission designer could just choose the terrain, insert units and then add empty waypoints from logical different routes to pick. Give each waypoint a unique identification and then call it at different situation by specific groups/units, even many using the one and the same.

 

Like this kind thing would allow a designer to create a colonna of 12 trucks with the few cover units etc that is tasked to move on 75km distance. Then make a 4-6 different routes from different roads or turns and then just add a random trigger to select colonna to choose one of the waypoints, or even split them to 2-3 different groups by some logic (like when they get air attack warning).

 

It would make very easy to do air patrol tasks as well. Make a waypoints side of the border. Make some variations and add some smaller circle pattern ones near other areas. And then you just spawn F-18 hornets from airfield and get them up in the air and assign one of the waypoint sets to them to fly. Create a basic trigger rules like if they get a X radio call, move them to follow a other waypoint set.

 

This would help as well designers to make a one waypoint set for landing and take-off, and then just assign different aircrafts to follow those, without doing each air group a own one.

 

To get a air tanker to fly a specific area and then return to airfield and get back would be easy, as you just assign the waypoint set in wanted time/order etc. You could have multiple areas and rules that are changed based the radio calls or other logic.

 

The ground units behavior could be easily made very dynamic and random as one can make lots of different routes that then AI follows based different behaviors. Like if the MBT platoon of 3 MBT gets one knocked off, but the attack is required to be continued, the AI logic can be via trigger be set to use a other not so risky route, or command even the platoon to withdraw little and take defensive positions before commanded otherwise.

 

The logic would work such way that when ever a unit/group is triggered to swap the waypoint set, it would by default take its current position and move to start of the assigned new waypoint set.

 

The waypoint set would be possible as well go reverse easily, so even when it has waypoint numbers like 1-2-3-4-5, the unit can be set to move it from 5 to 1. And as multiple units/groups can be assigned to same waypoint set, you can make the units/groups to collide each other, while still having a some random areas to follow, so you can make the ground units to choose the same valley route and meet somewhere in the area, as each unit/group can follow the path little differently.

 

 

This current waypoint system that DCS includes has been IMHO very strict and limiting as is. And the new Hornet video about waypoints and the sets showed that there will be a way to use those more freely, but is it only for the hornet flight computer where you can save and recall the waypoint data like in KA-50 and ABRIS is the other question....

 

So IMHO it should be ME feature for all kind units and groups and allow missions to become far more dynamic and random by easy to use mission editor functions. As the logic has been programmed now to DCS in Hornet module by ED, so ED should make it part of ME to advance all modules by mission designing. Some modules has the data cartridges like Viggen. Where for the MP players the cartridge would be each flightplan that they need to choose and load in the airfield etc. So mission designer doesn't need to add dozens of different units/groups but just create plans and decide what air unit are able to use them.

 

It would allow to build very complex warfare where different results in the sorties would result to open a different sorties for future to follow the results of previous ones. Like simple ones where a air patrol over given sea area doesn't detect any surface targets, they don't report any targets there so no sorties are open for anti-ship missions and all sorties open are for coast/mainland ones. If there was detected surface targets, then such sorties are opened that are match for the triggered types. So in multiplayer or single player, no one would go to waste fuel or time to fly sortie against ships, that were never detected, and they can just load their aircrafts with other sorties and go complete that, without changing aircraft in lobby etc.

 

This would as well change the multiplayer lobby from "aircraft/seat" design to "sortie" type/design. Where you are not picking up a specific unit/group to complete specific task, but you can pick any aircraft that can complete such kind sortie the "waypoint set" has assigned. Like if the waypoint set is for "anti-ship" then there are like Su-25A, Su-25T, Su-33, Viggen, F-18, listen in the aircraft to fly. The multiplayer lobby could show more easily the sorties by routes, target areas, types etc and friends can go to fly the same sortie together very easily. They can after completing one sortie, just return to airfield and go through list and select a other sortie. More like in many RPG games you can go and activate one of found quests on town board or map etc. The units/groups assigned to sortie could even receive a radio command to assign them a new sortie, deliver the information etc via radio and all just based the some triggers to swap routes etc. They could be easy like first to patrol a given route, then swap to another area for a loiter and possibly signal them new route to go check something etc. All dynamically.

Edited April 6, 2018 by Fri13

[Northstar98]

+++

 

Absolutely agreed on all counts.

 

One other thing I will also say is to have optional waypoints for individual units in a group, with merging/unmerging controllable via triggers. One simple way of having it is having a merged state where the units behave as a group like they do now, and have an unmerged one where they can follow their own individual waypoints. Though a better way would be to be able to have control over each individual unit's waypoints in a group.

 

Merging, unmerging and adding/subtracting units in a group as the mission progresses - controlled through the trigger system.

 

Here's a way it could work: you spawn a group and define it's waypoints, just like normal.

 

The ME automatically calculates waypoints for each unit of the group, (I think it does this already, but I could well be mistaken), all we need for the moment is for each of these individual waypoints to be editable - the formation feature for ground vehicles practically becomes redundant, for aircraft it's more difficult but IMO the current system is okay, though obviously it doesn't allow for dynamic groups.

Edited April 8, 2018 by Northstar98

[Fri13]

Yes, that too would be very important to get.

 

If the waypoint is set "no formation" then have a way to set each individual group unit "sub-waypoints" so you can get them move different routes and at different speed even, but wait that all in group are in area before continuing to next group waypoint.

 

And if waypoint is set to "formation X" then have a way to easily keep the formation type, but use the "sub-waypoints" to adjust the formation spread (size).

 

Like if set to move in line, then set them a combat separation of 400m for each of the unit so air attack wouldn't destroy all at once. But have a trigger that if opposition force attacks or gets spotted, the formation would be changed from file to staggered column that would move to both sides of road in cover.

 

So mission designer would more like issue commands what to do if X or Y happens, instead always strictly do a very specific task.

 

And yes, group should be something "not predefined" but more like a group of commanded troops.

 

So it would be like a command structure, a mechanized infantry company that includes X amount of IFV, Y amount of APC, Z amount of trucks and W amount of infantry. can be a one group that can be called with specific ID. But one can build sub-groups like 3x APC + 36 infantry soldiers is ie "sub-group A1", that can be assigned a own sub-waypoint or sub-task to perform, while the group itself is tasked to proceed the given waypoint as target.

 

Then such a "sub-group A1" could be given a logic that they move specific sub-route in File formation and if getting attacked, unmount all infantry and set them to circle around the vehicle with a 100m diameter. After a while if attack denied, mount back to "sub-group A1" transportation vehicles and continue movement.

 

You can see the general direction and route of the main group, and then sub-groups to give dynamic behavior.

[Northstar98]

Spot on Fri13! :thumbup:

Edited April 8, 2018 by Northstar98

[Fri13]

Need to add that the generation of these "waypoint sets" without groups, would allow some kind AI logic to be made that would generate possible sorties based what intelligence is given by the player(s).

 

As there wouldn't be any units assigned to them, they can be easily made available to be chosen. Player(s) can then read the intelligence report, see the suggested basic plan, maybe revise it and accept it, all while sitting in airfield while rearming.

 

The multiplayer servers could have human designers just plotting the sorties without requirement to manage any troops/groups itself. And it would be up to other human players or available pool of AI units, to accept or assign them to new plans.

 

This would allow few players to become a "intelligence officers", by plotting the mission and setting the time schedule, suggested loadout and then set it to the "sortie board".

 

Later if we could get pilots able to do depreving when at airfield by placing pins to areas where they saw something, give the "intelligence officers" a first hand knowledge but inaccuracies, so they design sorties based these reports. And so on there can be a lot of recon flights to do, patrol, search and rescue etc. That is all up to other players or even AI to start completing.

 

So we would be able to even remove the mission designer tasks to humans to start generating dynamic campaigns easily as there would be these "intelligence officers" just making the plans without any control of the units.