<10m tracking limit? (aka Amraam immunity mode)

[GGTharos]

I think most people are well familiar with a good number of exploits - it would probably not matter if you posted'em here, as they've likely been discussed a number of times.

[Ardillita]

not only a2a...

 

This 10m limit where no tracking seems good to catch you is not only present in a2a missiles. If any boat or exaple shoot you any kind of missile, and suddenly goe down 9 meter, the tracking is lost. If you fly all the time at 9 meters, you can go directly to any sea anemy (vinson, ticonderoga, you name it) and they will shoot you missiles... just to see them auto destroyed a second later.

[GGTharos]

Yep, you're quite right - and that's another issue that is being discussed, but I think such things will be fixed by adding more intelligence to missiles rather than removing the floor - meaning - we'll probably still see this happening in Black Shark.

[Pilotasso]

This 10m limit where no tracking seems good to catch you is not only present in a2a missiles. If any boat or exaple shoot you any kind of missile, and suddenly goe down 9 meter, the tracking is lost. If you fly all the time at 9 meters, you can go directly to any sea anemy (vinson, ticonderoga, you name it) and they will shoot you missiles... just to see them auto destroyed a second later.

 

 

Yeah? fly next to one and youll be shreded by phalanx, they stil work. ;)

Try dodge that one and youll be shot by missiles right after.

[Pilotasso]

Using this with HMS+eos+ET/ER pretty much makes you invincible over water against f15s, even with those tactics, pilot, I dont think it would work.

 

You dont have to think, its been done successfuly before. ;) :D

 

Its beats them to get a way to counter that counter.

[GGTharos]

Unfortunately they don't seem to be efficient enough, Pilot ... I can take a ship on with an A-10 here, don't even need a fast-mover.

 

Missile and CIWS issues, as well as weapons having ridiculously small frag pattern basically makes it a turkey shoot. You just have to aproach correctly.

[D-Scythe]

Yeah? fly next to one and youll be shreded by phalanx, they stil work. ;)

Try dodge that one and youll be shot by missiles right after.

 

No, you won't. You have plenty of time to kill it with almost any A/G ordnance you can think of - CIWS is a very short range weapon, useless against aircraft unless they make the mistake of overflying the ship.

[Pilotasso]

No, you won't. You have plenty of time to kill it with almost any A/G ordnance you can think of - CIWS is a very short range weapon, useless against aircraft unless they make the mistake of overflying the ship.

 

I agree and disagree to a certain point. Its true, your thinking that in order to sink a ship you can just shoot sea skiming missiles even though real ships have a hard time tracking that low, it shouldnt be as close as we can get ingame. But unless you have enough ordnace to destroy one in a single voley I wouldnt trust on the 10m exploit to get away with it, a small mistake and you will die untill you get outside the range of every of its weapons. In adition the CIWS will shoot you to bits in excess of 2 km, its not aftected by that exploit.

[GGTharos]

Well you -should- trust it, because it has been demonstrated to be repeatedly successful, by a number of people.

[Pilotasso]

well consider this: while you are right technicaly speaking the consequences of doing that with fighter cover flying overhead when going over water at 10m will give them alot of oportunities to spot you far away and get you killed anyway, so what you get by exploiting the code will aslo give you Zero margin for error and reduced escape possibilities.

 

If you can blast those ships out of the water then they deserve it, LOMAC is not a naval SIM as it has been stated numerous times.

[D-Scythe]

well consider this: while you are right technicaly speaking the consequences of doing that with fighter cover flying overhead when going over water at 10m will give them alot of oportunities to spot you far away and get you killed anyway, so what you get by exploiting the code will aslo give you Zero margin for error and reduced escape possibilities.

 

Too bad flying at 10 m also protects you from the radar missiles of the fighters too. Meaning that the only way to "save" the ship is to blast it with a heater.

 

Which is stupid. A single striker shouldn't cause that much of a problem.

 

If you can blast those ships out of the water then they deserve it, LOMAC is not a naval SIM as it has been stated numerous times.

 

You can use that logic and apply it to any exploit/issue in the game.

 

"Hey, if you can maddog ETs BVR, then do it, since LOMAC doesn't have WSM yet."

 

"If you can blink your ECM a gazillion times a second, do it. LOMAC doesn't model ECM realistically anyway."

 

etc.

[GGTharos]

I'm not sure why people are making excuses for unrealistic play. It is -not- excusable. It -has- to be fixed.

 

And Pilotasso? No one's ever guarding said assets. You're better off building up a land-based defense instead since you can build up a SHORAD net, but even that isn't perfect.

[S77th-GOYA]

I'm not sure why people are making excuses for unrealistic play. It is -not- excusable. It -has- to be fixed.

 

That's worth a quote. :thumbup:

[GGTharos]

I figure if we want a 'simulator' then it should simulate the air war experience ... for everything else there's master-card. I mean er, BF2 and ARMA. :D

[Pilotasso]

Too bad flying at 10 m also protects you from the radar missiles of the fighters too. Meaning that the only way to "save" the ship is to blast it with a heater.

 

Which is stupid. A single striker shouldn't cause that much of a problem.

 

 

 

You can use that logic and apply it to any exploit/issue in the game.

 

"Hey, if you can maddog ETs BVR, then do it, since LOMAC doesn't have WSM yet."

 

"If you can blink your ECM a gazillion times a second, do it. LOMAC doesn't model ECM realistically anyway."

 

etc.

 

I dont think any of you guys are apreciating how poor the 10m exploit is. ECM blinking and ET maddog exploits are far far worse.

If your flying a Su-25 and get spoted your chances of survival are way less than 50%. If fighters try the same there are ways to make their lifes miserable as well. I have already explained that.

 

 

I'm not sure why people are making excuses for unrealistic play. It is -not- excusable. It -has- to be fixed.

Now its me who dont understand. I have read numerous times, if not from you, from your coleagues on these forums that this SIM is not to focus naval combat, I mean why fix a secondary feature when theres so many primary features left to fix that are much more important?

 

And Pilotasso? No one's ever guarding said assets. You're better off building up a land-based defense instead since you can build up a SHORAD net, but even that isn't perfect.

 

Just as I said before, if team tactics fail to protect your assets then you deserve it.

You know the tactical difference between a Ticonderoga and a Patriot?

With the Patriot you get a gazilion blind spots you can use to aproach thanks to terrain masking. With the TICO, anyone trying to fly low will be spotted at 60miles. Again you dont expect frigates to fend fighters off all by themselves IRL either.

[GGTharos]

Where do you play that you see 'team tactics' on anything but a flight's scale? ...

[D-Scythe]

Just as I said before, if team tactics fail to protect your assets then you deserve it.

You know the tactical difference between a Ticonderoga and a Patriot?

With the Patriot you get a gazilion blind spots you can use to aproach thanks to terrain masking. With the TICO, anyone trying to fly low will be spotted at 60miles. Again you dont expect frigates to fend fighters off all by themselves IRL either.

 

This is the Ticonderoga Aegis cruiser; it's specialty is anti-aircraft warfare. It is first and foremost a SAM ship, and arguably the most capable and powerful anti-aircraft platform in the world.

 

The thing was conceived to obliterate anything flying in the air. So yeah, it should have absolutely no problem fending off waves of enemy fighters, no less a single fighter approaching at 10 m ASL. Hell, there are cruise missiles that are harder targets.

[Pilotasso]

Where do you play that you see 'team tactics' on anything but a flight's scale? ...

Its not the failiure of the team that deserves a fix, its a bug all by itself. ;)

And there are bugs worse worth the fix more than others. Thats all there is in my point of view.

 

This is the Ticonderoga Aegis cruiser; it's specialty is anti-aircraft warfare. It is first and foremost a SAM ship, and arguably the most capable and powerful anti-aircraft platform in the world.

 

The thing was conceived to obliterate anything flying in the air. So yeah, it should have absolutely no problem fending off waves of enemy fighters, no less a single fighter approaching at 10 m ASL. Hell, there are cruise missiles that are harder targets.

 

Was talking about spacial plots of the 2 in LOMAC not IRL.

[GGTharos]

This is a universal air defense issue in the game Pilotasso - it may be pretty endemic to ships because their operating environment makes them most vulnerable against these methods, but it's a problem in all air defense - and AAMs as well. And it ain't realistic ;)

[Pilotasso]

I know that, but realisticly speaking, how much do you expect it to be fixed in the current code as compared to others?

[GGTharos]

I expect it to be fixed sometime after BS ... just because it can't be fixed right away doesn't mean you should let it go - you 'live with it' with the expectation that it WILL be fixed in the future.

[S77th-GOYA]

it's a problem in all air defense

 

I seem to recall the Tor and Tung don't have much of a problem with NOE targets.

[GGTharos]

I recall flying under a Tor's radar coverage at some point - in any case, you could use heat-seekers ... but then, people load up their Su-27's or MiG's with A2G ordnance and the Avengers for example can't keep up with the speeds they develop, IIRC (I try not to mix sides in my missions, but sometimes you just don't have a choice)

[GiGurra]

This thread has grown pretty large......didn't expect this much :)

[GGTharos]

Pretty fly for a new guy ;)