Wingman Does not fight just mimic player input in Instant Play

[Nansaram]

In instant Action Playing of Air to Air ; M-2000C Missile Combat & Nevada Agressors,

 

I saw Tacview file when finished.

 

What a surprised, My wingman did not fight to cover me or engage bandit, just mimic my control input in the air, like air show.

 

I attached those files.

ACMI_M2000.zip

Edited August 3, 2018 by Nansaram

[jojo]

Did you give him any order ?

[Nansaram]

Did you give him any order ?

 

Sure, I ordered Engage Bandit or Cover me many many times.

I hear the pilot voice order to wingman but no responding.

[gavagai]

You're using the wrong radio, uhf or uvhf.

[Nansaram]

You're using the wrong radio, uhf or uvhf.

 

Hey, This is Instant Action, not a Campaign.

Every Radio Freq. must have been set.

Is any other module set a freq in Instance action A2A?

And there is no information about flight group freq. Only Sukhumi-Babushara.

If you know correct freq or channel, please let me know.

 

And, If you start the that instant aciton,

You will hear the wingman report the enemy missile launch. "Two, missile launched xx o'clock"

That means default ch1 Radio is OK.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Nansaram

[gavagai]

Even in instant action you have to use the correct radio. IIRC the wingman in instant action is on UVHF, not VHF.

[Nansaram]

Even in instant action you have to use the correct radio. IIRC the wingman in instant action is on UVHF, not VHF.

 

Default Radio is UVHF. As I already said, The wingman report spikes & missile launch to radio normally.

 

Do you think the wingman's flight manuver is normal? It did just mimic me in the air alone. That is big bug nothing to do with radio. Quite a funny action.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Nansaram

[jojo]

Wingman is on UHF (red radio).

[gavagai]

Wingman is on UHF (red radio).

 

Thanks! That's the one.:music_whistling:

[Nansaram]

Wingman is on UHF (red radio).

 

Hello,

In even Mirage Campaign, using Green & Red radio selection is not doing by player.

Just turn on the Red & green radio and select proper channel. and press \ to communicate.

Normally Green radio is OK to all other mission.

 

This is A2A "instant action", why I should select Radio? even did not select in Campaign.

Why this idiot wingman use Red radio? Red is second radio.

I want instant A2A combat not radio & freq chaging training.

 

And, The main topic is Wingman's "Maneuver".

Do you think this AI wingman's idiot mimic maneuver is normal? even if user does not order to wingman to engage?

 

As I say "again", This is nothing to do with "Radio". The basic maneuver of the basic wingman of the basic flight simulation games is at least just keep the formation if user does not order to engage. Do you think M2000 AI keep the formation?

This is "DCS", and this module is officially released more than 1 years ago(2017/4/20)

 

We users can call that M2000 AI wingman as just "idiot thing" for showing has no intelligence.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Nansaram

[jojo]

I'm plyaing DCS too, as I said, wingman communication is done by default on UHF radio, even in instant action.

 

 

 

But if you try to to give him orders on V/UHF (green radio) it doesn't answer.

 

 

If you don't give orders to the AI he follows you. That is standard DCS AI behavior.

 

 

If you don't want to try what we suggest you we can't do anything else.

 

TO GIVE ORDERS TO THE WINGMAN HAS PLENTY TO DO WITH RADIO MANAGEMENT !!!!

Edited August 8, 2018 by jojo

[Nansaram]

I'm plyaing DCS too, as I said, wingman communication is done by default on UHF radio, even in instant action.

 

 

 

But if you try to to give him orders on V/UHF (green radio) it doesn't answer.

 

 

If you don't give orders to the AI he follows you. That is standard DCS AI behavior.

 

 

If you don't want to try what we suggest you we can't do anything else.

 

TO GIVE ORDERS TO THE WINGMAN HAS PLENTY TO DO WITH RADIO MANAGEMENT !!!!

 

I did 3 times last night. The winman did not fight 2 times even I order to Red VHF radio. But final try It engage and shoot missile.

So it still did not work 100%. only 33.3% work.

 

Do you said it's Standatd DCS AI behavior(just mimic user input) when not order to engage?

 

Attached file is F-5E ACM Campaign with F-14A withch I did NOT order to engage. I fogot to order. Do you see the difference of winman's flight?

F-5E wingman is quite normal flight to keep maintaining formation. That is the standard behavior not your M2000 idiot mimic wingman.

 

And, The Default Radio is Green UVHF Radio. As your manual said.

Tacview-20180712-221740-DCS-F-5E - ACM03 2 vs 2 vs F-14A.zip.zip

Edited August 9, 2018 by Nansaram

[jojo]

Forget the concept of “default radio”.

You’ve got 2 radios.

- green: V/UHF

- red UHF only

 

By default, wingman coms are on UHF channel, and assigned to red radio.

 

When flying automatic generated missions (like DCE engine) coms are loaded on red UHF radio by default. Don’t know why, but it’s like that.

 

I don’t understand the difference in what you’re writing.

I’ll watch the track when I can...

[Nansaram]

Forget the concept of “default radio”.

You’ve got 2 radios.

- green: V/UHF

- red UHF only

 

By default, wingman coms are on UHF channel, and assigned to red radio.

 

When flying automatic generated missions (like DCE engine) coms are loaded on red UHF radio by default. Don’t know why, but it’s like that.

 

I don’t understand the difference in what you’re writing.

I’ll watch the track when I can...

 

Okay Let's forget to whole Radio. We can talk to wingman even not a 100% now.

 

Then, stay focus to flight maneuver of wingman.

Your Razbam made M2000 wingman is just idiot mimic of my plane in real time as my first post attached Tacview files.

But Belsimtek made F-5E wingman is flight formation with its own control and intelligence nothing to do with my stick input.

 

You said fly mimic with user input is "DCS standard AI behavior" .

But why Belsimtek F-5E fly like that? I will ask Belsimtek that Why they did not make their F-5E product no to follow that "DCS Standard", if you insist it is "Standard" again.

 

I'm quite impressed again with this mimic wingman problem.

Would I buy another future Razbam product is quite a questionable again.

Edited August 9, 2018 by Nansaram

[jojo]

I’m at work.

 

I will check when I can:

- M-2000C

- FC3 fighter (I don’t have F-5E)

 

PS: it isn’t my Razbam M-2000, I’m not Razbam, just a Dassault/ Mirage fan :smilewink:

[jojo]

Ok, I know it's a bit weird, but AI isn't always smart. Always the trickiest part in flight sim.

Did you compare the AI setting in mission editor ? (skill and ROE)

 

 

At least, in "missile combat", M-2000 AI is taking evasive maneuver on his own when targeted.

 

 

F-5E wingman is loosely flying in circle behind you, and shot down without any defense. I don't see how it is any better ?

 

 

 

Usually I order my wingman "engage hostiles", eventually doubled by "engage my target" (after locking one) and he fights on his own.

Sometimes he gets shot, often he manages to score one kill.

 

 

Yeah, it's heavy task to create a fighting "flow" with AI.

 

Best way might be to put him in trail, engage, and order "cover my six" when pumping.

Not the easiest thing to do in the heat of the battle.

[jojo]

Ok, I edited the "Missile combat" instant action mission on Caucasus.

- I deleted the MiG-23 flight.

- I set my wingman and both MiG-29 to "excellent" instead of "random".

 

At the beginning I ordered wingman to go trail with UHF radio (preset channel). I'm not sure if it does a difference, but I wait for the Hawkeye to shut up before giving my order.

 

 

I engage MiG-29 leader and go to crank. When my missile flight time counter reaches 0:

- I ordered to wingman "cover me"

- then I pump

 

The wingman does his job (firing/ evading). Just 2 orders.

Trail tactic.zip

[Nansaram]

Ok, I know it's a bit weird, but AI isn't always smart. Always the trickiest part in flight sim.

Did you compare the AI setting in mission editor ? (skill and ROE)

 

 

At least, in "missile combat", M-2000 AI is taking evasive maneuver on his own when targeted.

 

 

F-5E wingman is loosely flying in circle behind you, and shot down without any defense. I don't see how it is any better ?

 

 

 

Usually I order my wingman "engage hostiles", eventually doubled by "engage my target" (after locking one) and he fights on his own.

Sometimes he gets shot, often he manages to score one kill.

 

 

Yeah, it's heavy task to create a fighting "flow" with AI.

 

Best way might be to put him in trail, engage, and order "cover my six" when pumping.

Not the easiest thing to do in the heat of the battle.

 

You totally are not understanding what I said many times.

I say again, I ask Razbam about why My wingman did not fight (solved for using RED second radio not primary Green radio) & why it mimic my stick input when I did not order to engage even 10miles away saparated not in closed formation.

 

You said wingman's mimic is DCS standard behavior. But I hand in F-5E case for normal wingman formation flight.

M2000 wingman was survived not by its own AI but by my stick skill & luck. It directly follow my stick movement & lucky to evade missile toward it.

If it is just simple bug, you can tell Razbam catch it and editing. But you said again it is normal and superior than F-5 wingman.

 

If Razbam product's wingman is still mimic and it is Razbam Standard, I will not buy Razbam product anymore. Because it is garbage.

 

If you are not Razbam member, You don't have to answer. I read your wrong way explanation enough. Thanks for it(RED radio) but please pass to Razbam member.

Edited August 10, 2018 by Nansaram

[jojo]

I asked to Razbam, they have no control on AI behavior.

I don't know if Belsimtek did something specific to the AI. Did you ask them ?

 

What is the F-5E wingman skill level in your mission.

 

M-2000C missile combat mission is set to random, so it can be anything.

Did you have the “mimic behaviour” once or multiples times ?

Edited August 10, 2018 by jojo