Dogfight video

[TorwaK]

 

[Colt40Five]

They are in the "How To-DIY(do it yourself)" category at youtube....hehe Thanks for the links.

[TorwaK]

You're welcome... also I noticed about "How To-DIY(do it yourself)" case. Actually you made me remember some video which I don't like.

 

 

In movie again Turkish and Greek fighters making dogfight and during dogfight Turkish pilot get behind of Greek Mirage 2000. Greek pilot tries to cause to go away Turkish pilot from behind. At this moment he lost to control and crashed over to Aegean sea. Unfortunatelly, he died.

 

After Greek Mirage 2000 crashed to water, Turkish pilot says "Eyvah uзak denize dьştь!" with scaring and sad voice thats mean "Oh my God, plane is crashed to water!". You can comment on it like "Oh my God what I've done!" After that another Turkish pilot confirm the situation there.

 

A couple of years after this accident, some TV channel made an interview with the Turkish pilot who made this dogfight. The pilot was still sad about this accident. In interview speaker ask him that what did you feel at this moment?

 

His answer was: "I felt sadness. It doesnt matter his nationality... who's living a life like my own, it's terrible to end it like that. I feel myself deeply sorry about it"

 

As I can see still he can't get over this accident because his voice is trembling during talk.

[No Fear]

Hi TorwaK.

 

It was a Mirage F1CG (not a Mirage-2000) and it was back in 1992.

 

And quite frankly I never understood why people (both Greeks and Turks) feel the need to post such videos...

 

And the titles of all these videos are sometimes a bit provocative (Rulers of the Aegean or Hunting over the Aegean,and so on).

 

Take care.

[TorwaK]

Hi No fear,

 

first of all at my source there is written Mirage 2000EG about plane which is crashed over aegean sea. Maybe it's wrong I'm not sure about it, but that's certain it was a Mirage.

 

I like to watch these videos for enjoy. In my personal opinion absolutely I'm against of competion which is ending with misfortune accidents. There can be a nice competitions to show skills of our pilots, but this competition must finish in good way. At this movie when the Greek pilot is crashed over sea, I felt sad as like Turkish pilot is crashed there.

 

On the other hand I watched one of Greek pilot movie record. He catched our one of F-16C from behind and locked. That was very nice and I congratulated inside of me but when I saw the english subtitles of movie, my ideas are changed. The Greek pilot was cursing like crazy.... what for he was doing it, I dont know.

 

In our movies I've never heard even "dumb" or "stupid" words about Greek pilots from Turkish pilots. Usually during movie they're talking about strategy... how to catch it and so on. When they get behind of a Greek plane, our pilot is spelling the board numbers of Greek plane and take notes. So they knows how many times they came cross before. That's certain, they can't curse or say something bad because there is a commander moreover its shame for Turkish public.

[No Fear]

TorwaK I can understand that any real dogfight video is in a way interesting,so I can accept what you say about you watching them for enjoyment.

 

But I hope you understand that many of these videos are sometimes dogfights between pilots of the same side.

 

For example,I have seen some videos that are claimed to be between a Turkish F-16 vs a Greek Mirage-2000;but the Mirage-2000 in that (those) video(s) have 2 external fuel tanks when in reality Greek Mirage-2000s fly on CAP with only one external fuel tank!

 

Another thing that in a way I don't like are the pompous titles of these videos like the ones I mentioned in my previous post.

 

As for the 'cursing' of Greek pilots in some of the videos you mentioned I have to say that it is difficult to really and accurately translate the words spoken and also you cannot be 100% sure who translated them in that way and why.But even so,during a dogfight the adrenaline skyrockets and if any pilot says something he wouldn't say otherwise,then that is also acceptable in a way.Let's not forget that he was defending his national air space.

 

All in all,I still believe that no matter what the true intentions of the person posting such videos (whether he is Greek or Turkish) just opens a can of worms and usually ends in no good like I have seen happening so many times in the past.But hey,you and everybody else have the right to post whatever you like,right?

 

Take care.

 

PS:The Mirage in that video you posted was a Mirage F1CG vs an F-16C not a Mirage-2000 and it happened in 1992.

[TorwaK]

TorwaK I can understand that any real dogfight video is in a way interesting,so I can accept what you say about you watching them for enjoyment.

 

But I hope you understand that many of these videos are sometimes dogfights between pilots of the same side.

 

Hi again No Fear,

 

yes of course I like to watch dogfight videos, sometimes there is really qualified pilots in movies. The second case I'm not going to discuss it about the same side case and so on... because all of our world knows that Turkish Air Force don't have Mirage planes. Some Greek people says that these videos are fake and so on. I respect them, they can believe just what they want.

 

As for the 'cursing' of Greek pilots in some of the videos you mentioned I have to say that it is difficult to really and accurately translate the words spoken and also you cannot be 100% sure who translated them in that way and why

 

First of all I've seen only single movie which made by Greek fighter jets doing dogfight with Turkish jets on youtube. Also this video uploaded many times with different names to youtube from Greek people. I'm sure you watched all of them so you don't need to be expert to understand it all of them the same video. By the way I don't speak Greek so I must trust to English subtitle on the movie. If the conversation translated wrong, its not my mistake because of I'm judging it.

 

For example,I have seen some videos that are claimed to be between a Turkish F-16 vs a Greek Mirage-2000;but the Mirage-2000 in that (those) video(s) have 2 external fuel tanks when in reality Greek Mirage-2000s fly on CAP with only one external fuel tank!

 

Another thing that in a way I don't like are the pompous titles of these videos like the ones I mentioned in my previous post.

 

As for the 'cursing' of Greek pilots in some of the videos you mentioned I have to say that it is difficult to really and accurately translate the words spoken and also you cannot be 100% sure who translated them in that way and why.But even so,during a dogfight the adrenaline skyrockets and if any pilot says something he wouldn't say otherwise,then that is also acceptable in a way.Let's not forget that he was defending his national air space.

 

Buddy, believe me no need to discuss about that Greek Mirages fly with 2 external fuel tanks and on these videos Greek Mirage carries single tank. Your jets take off 50km far away from Izmir city do they need to carry 2 external tanks? Are they going to bomb Iran or far east like India? :) Just believe whatever if you want, I respect you.

 

The thing is Greece must understand that your national border is not starting at our Izmir city or somewhere near it... if your goverment tells to Turkey that "we're going to increase our island borders to 12km (casus belli)" of course Turkey will stop Greece as like now. Because it's the same that Turkey tells to Iran "Sorry my friend, I'm increasing my border space so give me your land" So you should be fair not only to yourself my dear Greek friend, because you're not the single race on the world and owner of it.

 

All in all,I still believe that no matter what the true intentions of the person posting such videos (whether he is Greek or Turkish) just opens a can of worms and usually ends in no good like I have seen happening so many times in the past.But hey,you and everybody else have the right to post whatever you like,right?

 

Take care.

 

I don't have any bad opinion about Greek people on the contantry I like them because both of us mediterrenian people. Yes Greeks made lots of mistakes at past because of colonist europian countries than they paid the all bills, but remember we share the same culture. An example I like Greek Hellim cheese very much with drinking Raki and doing Sirtaki :P I know that Greeks do the same.

[No Fear]

TorwaK the written speech is easily misunderstood so let me try and be as clear as I can.

 

1.Yes,it is a known fact that Turkey doesn't have any Mirages.But it is just as easy for someone to upload a video at a site that shows for example an Egyptian Mirage-2000 vs a Turkish F-16 and say it is a Greek vs Turkey encounter.I never accused you of deliberately lying in any of your posts,I am just saying that many of these videos (uploaded by Greeks as well) may be 'fake'.

 

2.Also about the translation of what the Greek pilot I didn't say that it was your mistake.Again I was speaking in general that anyone can present a situation in a way that he sees fit.

 

3.I think that this not the place not the time to talk about and resolve national borders.Try and understand that no Greek in his right mind says that out border starts at Izmir.Talk about what a government tells its people...

 

4.Greek Mirage-2000s fly CAP with one external fuel not two.They rarely do so but not on CAP over the Aegean.

 

5.Believe me too when I say that yes in a way we have things in common.And above all both sides must find a way to live in peace with another and that war was not a solution in the past nor can it be a solution in the future.

 

I have no hard feelings for you and I respect your right to an opinion as I hope you do too.

 

It is just that I'd prefer to see other videos in the future that are not about our so called differences but something more positive and meaningful.

After all I suppose you are a peace loving person and not a war monger,right?So what is better?A peaceful and prosperous life or a disastrous war?

 

Take care.

[192nd_Erdem]

Hi TorwaK.

 

And quite frankly I never understood why people (both Greeks and Turks) feel the need to post such videos...

 

Take care.

 

I agree. Greek vs Turkish "penor" race is one of the last things I want to see in this forum.

[GGTharos]

The subtitles in the greek video are a bit exaggerated. Actually the pilots aren't swearing, IIRC - but there is some bravado in one or two points, but no more. The rest is the kind of communication you'd expect in a dogfight.

 

Specifically I recall a subtitle saying something to the effect of 'I'm gonna ****'em' where the pilot in fact said 'I'll tear'em apart', and beyond that, again, IIRC, there were no other comments like that made at all.

 

It may also be that the Turkish Propaganda office was more clever in picking which HUD footage to allow 'out' as well, as I can't imagine pilots in a dogfight not getting excited, and if so, kudos to them ;)

 

Also in -some- cases these videos look ... or feel rather, like they're exercises, rather than all-out fights.

 

The accusations of 'faking' are not so much about the HUD footage not being real, but rather accusations of actual origins of said footage etc.

 

Either way, no matter where you post these youtube links, you always end up seeing must get slung around sooner or later. It would help if the videos themselves were bereft of useless and poorly translated subtitles, and the stupid propaganda in the video comments.

[TorwaK]

It may also be that the Turkish Propaganda office was more clever in picking which HUD footage to allow 'out' as well, as I can't imagine pilots in a dogfight not getting excited, and if so, kudos to them ;)

 

It depends on a pilot... by the way if you get excited, you can make a mistake. As I can sea Turkish pilot who's chasing there just keep silent because of listening to wing commander orders. I heared all time commander voices behind. As I can understand he watches the dogfight from far also he orders, give advices to the pilot. On the other hand I understood maximum %50 percent of radio conversation becasue of high music volume in video.

 

By the way it's not a training, they're all armed. At 2003 Turkish and Greek goverments made and agreement that CAP's will be unarmed but after that both side didn't care about it.

[GGTharos]

Just because you can make a mistake if you get excited doesn't mean you won't get excited. It's human nature. You'll be pretty calm in one engagement, and pretty excited in another. Some engagements are fairly slow and not exciting, some get pretty violent and you get all sorts of excitement - it happens in LO too.

[No Fear]

When I use the term 'fake',I mean that anyone can upload a video as a Greek or a Turk or whatever.

 

I can go to youtube and make an account with a Turkish name and then upload a video.That doesn't mean that I AM a Turk.

 

Another thing that I mean when using the term 'fake' is that the planes shown in these videos may or may not be Greek or Turkish.

 

As for the audio in each video it is easy to change it and add to any video the audio of your choice.

 

So all in all,I never pay much attention to the credibility of these videos nor to who has won the dogfight.Even if all videos showed that only pilots from one side win all the time would it really mean much?

 

A pilot may be running low on fuel or may be ordered to head back to base or he may have an engine problem which means he has to land,and the opponent goes on his six 'shoots' a few seconds of video and...boom you have yourself a propaganda video.In these cases it doesn't mean that he has won the dogfight.Big deal!

 

I have said it in that other post that was locked a few months back;I am pretty sure that all air forces have at least some good pilots that can win a dogfight.This somehow cannot be a privilege for one side only.

 

But for the life of me,I can never understand why from time to time a Greek or a Turk will have to post such videos.I hope this stops as it leads to no good.

[No Fear]

Just because you can make a mistake if you get excited doesn't mean you won't get excited. It's human nature. You'll be pretty calm in one engagement, and pretty excited in another. Some engagements are fairly slow and not exciting, some get pretty violent and you get all sorts of excitement - it happens in LO too.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself!:thumbup: