To Trim or not to Trim Refueling in a Crosswind

[Weegie]

I ask here as I'm currently spending more time in the Mirage at the moment

 

Further to the thread where I commented on how difficult I found the Mirage to refuel with in comparison to the Hornet, I'm now trying to refine my procedure and refuel in a crosswind.

 

On the Aerobatics On Line Beta server the C-130 is at 11000ft the IL-78 at 15000 and the higher you go the stronger the winds

 

I can refuel with the Herc after a few attempts and can plug into the IL-78 but usually never stay connected for long.

 

On both the Mirage and Hornet the Flight path marker is out of center and I learned that to plug in you align the top of the center of the pitch ladder to the base of the pod that the hose reels out from and not simply the center of the HUD.

 

However once plugged in, it gets pretty sporty and I'm experimenting with dialing in rudder trim to move the pitch ladder to the center of the HUD. With the Hornet only rudder trim is required but with the Mirage there appears to be a significant roll element as well (because of the delta wings?)

 

I just wondered what others do, as so far my experimentation hasn't lead to me to a firm conclusion on the best way to achieve a connection and stay connected

[jojo]

Don't use the pitch ladder as reference, use the centre mark of your heading tape.

[Weegie]

Interesting jojo

 

 

The reason for using the pitch ladder was I found that if you haven't trimmed to counteract the wind vector your aircraft is partially crabbing through the air

 

 

Using the center of the heading tape means no account is being made for the sideways component, when I did this the basket would then tend to move sideways as I approached

 

 

 

If instead I used the top of the pitch ladder, which was offset in the HUD and therefore taking the sideways motion into account the basket did not swing nearly as much making the approach and plug in easier.

 

 

I need to experiment some more and record some video to demonstrate as it's easier to comprehend

[jojo]

Interesting jojo

 

 

The reason for using the pitch ladder was I found that if you haven't trimmed to counteract the wind vector your aircraft is partially crabbing through the air

 

 

Using the center of the heading tape means no account is being made for the sideways component, when I did this the basket would then tend to move sideways as I approached

 

 

 

If instead I used the top of the pitch ladder, which was offset in the HUD and therefore taking the sideways motion into account the basket did not swing nearly as much making the approach and plug in easier.

 

 

I need to experiment some more and record some video to demonstrate as it's easier to comprehend

 

I don’t understand your issue. Both you and the tanker are in the air, flying at the same speed, so crosswind shouldn’t be a factor.

 

But if you’re trying to put the basket in the middle of the offset pitch ladder, you are making your aircraft flying sideways.

Edited December 4, 2018 by jojo

[Weegie]

Ok I hear where you're coming from, I'm just relaying what I've found so far but need to experiment more. It could be my imagination or perhaps just lucky attempts

 

 

I'm not sure how accurate the modelling is but I would think a light fighter would be far more strongly affected by a crosswind component than a large tanker heavy with fuel

 

 

However I'm not a pilot

 

 

Your answers are appreciated jojo it's probably me that's got it all wrong, my wife always tells me that anyway

[jojo]

I’m not fighter pilot, I never did air to air refuelling in real life.

 

I used to fly glider.

Once that both the tow plane and the glider are airborne, wind was no factor anymore, no need to fly sideway behind the plane even with 20kt wind.

 

I will test in DCS to refuel with crosswind and I will tell you.

 

But the idea is that crosswind is relative to the ground.

Once in the air, everyone is flying into the same moving air mass. When you’re on the ground, or when you try to follow a ground track, this moving air mass is wind.

Edited December 4, 2018 by jojo

[Weegie]

Gotcha jojo

 

 

Thank you very much for the input it's appreciated

 

 

Still find refueling in a crosswind a handful, but I am the world's worst pilot

[Frederf]

There's nothing about crosswind AAR that suggests anything other than normal coordinated flight. Don't use rudder. Don't cross controls. Don't try to center the VV on the VTH. I connected to Il-78 tanker with 60m/s of crosswind with VTH switched off (or on) with one connection complete transfer.

 

With VTH switched off (good training aid) and not looking at ground or smoke trails from engines it is impossible to notice anything different with or without crosswind. During final 100', contact, and refueling you are never looking at any numbers or other symbols. Only pay attention to the big metal airplane you are flying with.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Frederf

[jojo]

I’m not sure about your acronyms :D

 

VTH = HUD

VTB = HDD

[Frederf]

Thanks

[Weegie]

Thank you guys

 

 

Looks like I'm over thinking it, unusual, thinking let alone over thinking is not a term used about my decision making processes :clown_2: