Emergency Air Restart

[Rootkitz]

Hey everyone! Just wondering if there is a standard procedure for a air restart for the Hornet? Haven’t been able to find much.

[Vitormouraa]

1. BLEED AIR knob to OFF;

2. Right throttle to IDLE, with a minimum RPM of 15% N2.

 

Then repeat the process for the second engine.

 

If you're using APU, the startup procedure is the same as the one you'd use on the ground.

 

If crossbleed is used instead;

 

1. Make sure the APU is off;

2. Cycle the BLEED AIR knob to NORM;

3. ENG CRANK switch to L or R;

4. Left or Right throttle to IDLE, with a minimum RPM of 15% N2.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Vitormouraa

[Flamin_Squirrel]

1. BLEED AIR knob to OFF;

2. ENG CRANK switch to R;

3. Right throttle to IDLE, with a minimum RPM of 15% N2.

 

That doesn't sound right; how are you going to crank the engine with no bleed air?

 

There is more information on this subject than can really be covered in a couple of paragraphs. I'd check out the NATOPS if you really want to know about this. Here's some additional info though:

 

The APU restart envelope is very limited (<250kts and <10,000ft).

 

Descend to below 25,000ft to improve your restart chances for both windmill and crossbleed restarts.

 

If your speed is blow 400kts go for crossbleed start, above this you can use windmill.

 

Crossbleed requires 80-85%+ rpm on the operating engine if the dead engine is below 30% rpm.

[Jansgi]

That doesn't sound right; how are you going to crank the engine with no bleed air?

 

Read the post to the end...

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Read the post to the end...

 

Those 3 points alone imply a successful start will result, so what does reading to the end accomplish? The rest of the post are for different proceedures.

 

The proceedure Vitormouraa posted doesn't appear in NATOPS nor does it seem to make sense.

[Vitormouraa]

Those 3 points alone imply a successful start will result, so what does reading to the end accomplish? The rest of the post are for different proceedures.

 

 

 

The proceedure Vitormouraa posted doesn't appear in NATOPS nor does it seem to make sense.

 

 

 

It was taken from the NATOPS. Take a look at it again.

 

And yes, it makes sense.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Page reference please.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

Correct, no bleed air required for windmill start, but you don't need to crank the engine for a windmill restart either; all you need is affected throttle idle or above. And you couldn't crank the engine with your proceedure anyway, because you've turned the bleed air off.

 

If I've missed something fine, but your proceedure just doesn't seem to make sense.

[Jansgi]

Correct, no bleed air required for windmill start, but you don't need to crank the engine for a windmill restart either; all you need is affected throttle idle or above. And you couldn't crank the engine with your proceedure anyway, because you've turned the bleed air off.

 

If I've missed something fine, but your proceedure just doesn't seem to make sense.

 

Cranking is for the ignition.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

No it isn't.

 

Ignition is on with throttle at IDLE or above and rpm between 12% and 45% with engine flamed out.

[Jansgi]

No it isn't.

 

Nice quote without source. Anyway... NATOPS requires engine crank so don't crank or crank, I do not care :) You are welcome for the help.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

That's directly from NATOPS.

 

State your source or start making sense.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

 

There are 4 restart profiles: APU, Crossbleed, Spooldown, Windmill (profiles for these are shown on other pages not included above).

 

APU and Crossbleed require the engine being restarted is cranked; bleed air is required for this. Spooldown and windmill do not require cranking/bleed air.

[Vitormouraa]

 

There are 4 restart profiles: APU, Crossbleed, Spooldown, Windmill (profiles for these are shown on other pages not included above).

 

APU and Crossbleed require the engine being restarted is cranked; bleed air is required for this. Spooldown and windmill do not require cranking/bleed air.

 

I made a mistake, my procedures are following NATOPS accordingly, but I used the wrong procedure, which was the external air start. No ENG CRANK switch, just move the throttles to IDLE instead. Fixed.

[Flamin_Squirrel]

No problem, we're all here to learn :thumbup:

[macedk]

Squirrel po po have spoken ;)

Joke aside

thread almost got heated but parties rechecked their stuff and worked the problem.

 

Lesson here, stand your ground but make damn sure you are on the money and be prepared to backstroke ;)

 

Frag ego and get to the conclusion of the problem and get it right, that was the goal.

 

So many fall off the cliff in personal views.

 

Take this thread to many different problems, especially with computers. People stick to their guns, not because they are right but because the solution was the least amount of brainpower for the problem.

 

That way you go with the wrong solution.

 

This video (turn on subtitles) Shows a danish pilot working a critical problem for a long time.

Other than a fascinating story, there is a lot to be learned about conduct, trouble shooting etc.