TMW spring mod

[Supmua]

I messed around with my TMW joystick base today since I haven't touched it in ages and got surprisingly good results.

 

Took my base apart and added double tiny springs (2 in each column instead of 1), while leaving the large center spring alone. During the test fight I couldn't tell the difference from my Virpil's WarBRD (changed to heavy springs since the default setup is too soft with the TMW grip), if anything the TMW has longer throw which is a plus for some (no extension). It feels really good without the typical crazy resistance near the center seen with the default setup and the smoothness is just like the Virpil--granted this base doesn't have stiction problem (yet).

 

I also have VKB GFII base with 30 cams/springs setup which also yields similar results (a bit shorter throw and a tad stiffer than Virpil and TMW). The VKB feels very solid when you let go and release the stick back to the center, zero wobbling/oscillation, but it could be due to the lighter grip on top. My Virpil with TMW grip oscillates quite a bit when it goes back to the center without hand support, while the TMW base wobbles just a tad (none of these is an issue with a bit of dead zone setting and you don't typically let go of the stick anyway).

 

And of course, the FSSB R3 Lighting which is still my preferred choice since it feels tight and more precise than the rest. The only downside is during AAR which is more difficult to do as there is no throw so it's easy to register larger input around the center but perhaps it's just a matter of fine tuning the settings.

 

So my conclusion, with the right mod the TMW joystick can definitely hang with the newer guys. Yep, it is that good.:thumbup:

Edited April 20, 2019 by Supmua

[-0303-]

Where did you find the springs? What did they cost?

 

I've been looking for cheap springs to do just that. I didn't want to order expensive springs from Thrustmaster (or from Sahaj). I've looked without success for springs of the right size. I measured the original springs with a slide gauge (see image):

Length: 19.3 mm

Outer diameter: 7.6 mm

Wire diameter (difficult to get at to measure): 0.53-0.55 mm

Compressed length: 3.7 mm

The four poles they sit around are 6 mm diameter.

I even tried to make my own. I don't have the tools or experience. 0.75 mm piano wire is to strong to shape without good tools. I have 0.5 mm piano wire I haven't tried yet.

 

Seems modifying springs can be done in three ways.

a) Replace original springs

b) Put two springs in tandem

c) Have a slightly larger spring outside the original springs (I tried to shape new springs around an 8 mm drill bit)

 

I favor keeping the original springs in place because that's a surefire way of not loosing them. Compressed length is important (note, one should never compress springs fully). Adding 2 washers (3.2 mm) works, adding 3 washers (4.8 mm) introduces slack. I interpreted that as: There is only between 3.2 - 4.8 mm available (beyond 3.7 mm) for a fully compressed added tandem spring.

Edited April 21, 2019 by -0303-

[Supmua]

Where did you find the springs? What did they cost?

 

I've been looking for cheap springs to do just that. I didn't want to order expensive springs from Thrustmaster (or from Sahaj). I've looked without success for springs of the right size. I measured the original springs with a slide gauge (see image):

Length: 19.3 mm

Outer diameter: 7.6 mm

Wire diameter (difficult to get at to measure): 0.53-0.55 mm

Compressed length: 3.7 mm

The four poles they sit around are 6 mm diameter.

I even tried to make my own. I don't have the tools or experience. 0.75 mm piano wire is to strong to shape without good tools. I have 0.5 mm piano wire I haven't tried yet.

 

Seems modifying springs can be done in three ways.

a) Replace original springs

b) Put two springs in tandem

c) Have a slightly larger spring outside the original springs (I tried to shape new springs around an 8 mm drill bit)

 

I favor keeping the original springs in place because that's a surefire way of not loosing them. Compressed length is important (note, one should never compress springs fully). Adding 2 washers (3.2 mm) works, adding 3 washers (4.8 mm) introduces slack. I interpreted that as: There is only between 3.2 - 4.8 mm available (beyond 3.7 mm) for a fully compressed added tandem spring.

 

Those springs from my old broken TMW base so they are the exact same size-wise, but I think we could buy something similar from hardware stores such as Lowes, Home depot, etc. I agree that spring length and overall tension is important in order to counteract the exerted force from the large top spring that would lock the stick to the center (too little = too stiff, too much = too loose), and this makes it very moddable compared to other sticks due to variety of springs out there that you can try on. It was a nice surprise how good the control feels considering people are saying the VKB/Virpil are light years ahead of the TMW.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Supmua

[-0303-]

I think I might have made a mistake in suggesting there's only between 3.2 - 4.8 mm available for fully compressed springs placed in tandem with the original springs.

 

Taking a second look at a picture I took (below), I think something else might be going on. Two washers (1) are placed under the original springs (2) to stiffen them. The washers are 1.6 mm thick each (total 3.2 mm), outer diameter of 12.0 mm and an inner diameter of 6.4 mm.

Notice the widest point of the gimbal, the 'brim' (3). I had made an experiment putting the washers on top of the springs instead of under and then I got slack. I interpreted this as the washers being to wide (12.0 mm) and touching the 'brim'.

I just realized maybe this happens with the washers placed under the springs also if they rise higher than the black platform (4) at center.

As mentioned 2 washers (1.6 x 2 = 3.2 mm) no slack, but 3 washers (1.6 x 3 = 4.8 mm) I get slack.

Point being, if one could find washers with smaller outer diameter, they would not interfere with the 'brim' and maybe they could be 4.8 mm or more.

 

I decided I really want a stick extension to be able to fly, especially the WW2 planes (which I'm into), with more ease and precision. The greater throw will also attenuate the spring force. So I will not pursue spring mods further for the moment.

 

~

 

Note 1, placing using two washers as in picture did not make much of a noticeable difference in perceived spring force.

 

Note 2, The washers are white because they're nylon not metal (no particular reason, except something 'soft' felt safer).

 

Note 3, If I were to pursue spring mods I like the idea of using a slightly larger diameter spring placed just outside the original springs. This would not have issues with limited compressed length and also no risk of springs in tandem getting entangled and damaged because of entanglement (this could be an irrational fear). Note, a washer between a tandem pair could be a safeguard against entanglement.

 

Note 4, I find the four poles holding all this together as kind of weak and spindly. Also it's annoying that each time I loosen the screws on top, the screws in the base also get loose and need to be tightened. Because of the 'spindly-ness' I'm scared of threading each time I do this. But I think it's important to tighten all screws just enough but not more, because a) if they're allowed to move, this will increase wear significantly and b) there will be slack. I'm quite tired of disassembling and reassembling the base and each time be a little afraid of damaging this spindly construction.

 

Note 5, I covet a VKB or Virpil base, adjustable springs, better quality (see this thread post1, post2).

Edited April 28, 2019 by -0303-

[Supmua]

I own all these bases (except the Mongoose T-50) and precision wise I cannot perceive any significant difference among my TMW (after spring mod), VKB GF2, and VPC WARBRD even though the mechanisms are different (compressed springs top-bottom vs extended tension springs in X-Y axes). They all feel mostly the same during delicate maneuvers such as AAR.

 

The only down side of the TMW base is the stiction issue that can happen.

[Sokol1_br]

Lighter (main) spring.