Who's got a more engine power, F-16C or FA-18C ?

[cauldron]

To the OP, my answer.

 

Looking for thrust to weight comparisons will get you no where fast in aerodynamics. Best to go read some performance charts between the two aircraft to get started, because its not so simple. But to answer your question thrust to weight is a very bad metric that is commonly abused.

 

some examples:

 

* level flight ( any altitude ) acceleration. thrust to weight you would think rules, but only in F=ma. But F has complications as it is opposed by drag, which is not as simple as one plane being better than the other.

 

* vertical climb acceleration ( even at sea level ) neither plane can do it. period. Thrust not greater than weight + drag. they are airplanes, not dragonflies zipping about at over 20:1 thrust to weight. ( yup, the little ol dragonfly has the highest performance of anything flying today, as far as accelerations are concerned :P )

 

* turns, well to turn you need to do 1 of 3 things, high AoA maneuvers, sustained turn rate, or instantaneous rate turns... of which none are ruled by thrust-to-weight, except maybe moment of inertia has a heavy hand in high AoA,but that's not weight either.

 

If you are curious, go get into how planes maneuver, get into some aerodynamics. A traditional read would be "Aerodynamics for naval aviators" NAVWEPS 00-80T-80. Ther are many more to choose from, usually the more math in it, the better :thumbup:

 

Thrust-to-weight gets mentioned a lot because its an easy measurement to make and state, the real question is thrust/drag throughout the envelope, but is actually not easy to do or study. thrust to weight of an engine can tell a lot about that engine, but thrust to weight of an aircraft tells not so much really. It gets thrown around a lot in conversations just like this one, but in the end its a lot like politics, a lot of talking but very little being said.:megalol:

 

cheers.

Edited August 26, 2019 by cauldron

[SFJackBauer]

That being said, I'll still take the hornet and its ability to get the first shot off any day of the week.

 

Hornet gets the first shot off?

 

Both planes field the same air to air weapons. AIM-120C/D, AIM-9X

 

Both planes have helmet mounted sights integrated with 9X.

 

Why would the Hornet get the first shot off in equal situations?

[Exorcet]

However in BVR speed is priceless, so all that thrust in a tiny package gives F-16 a big advantage there without a doubt.

Yeah my time with the Hornet has lead me to conclude it's not that great of a fighter. It can do great things in close, but you need to get there first. The struggle to get to speed or climb in BVR is something I feel in basically every engagement.

 

 

I think the Hornet's problems might be overblown by stores drag. I actually like to fly it with only wingtip and fuselage missiles for air to air because it can actually move with that configuration. As soon as something is loaded on the wings it's barely a supersonic aircraft. Even if the stores drag is overly high though, it's not going to match the F-16, so I'll just switch over to the Falcon as my fighter of choice until hopefully we get a F-15 someday.

[Wizard_03]

Hornet gets the first shot off?

 

Both planes field the same air to air weapons. AIM-120C/D, AIM-9X

 

Both planes have helmet mounted sights integrated with 9X.

 

Why would the Hornet get the first shot off in equal situations?

 

 

To clarify; I meant after the merge and its because you can point your nose wherever you want in the hornet. It directly translates to more weapon employment opportunities, even more still with HOBS missiles. Since I don't necessarily need to be on someones 6 pulling lead for a gun solution, all that EM theory that makes the viper so wonderful is somewhat moot if I can kill it first. In other words missiles are much much more of threat these days then guns, and the hornet has a clear advantage in that regard due to its nose pointing authority.

 

 

Yeah my time with the Hornet has lead me to conclude it's not that great of a fighter. It can do great things in close, but you need to get there first. The struggle to get to speed or climb in BVR is something I feel in basically every engagement.

 

 

I think the Hornet's problems might be overblown by stores drag. I actually like to fly it with only wingtip and fuselage missiles for air to air because it can actually move with that configuration. As soon as something is loaded on the wings it's barely a supersonic aircraft. Even if the stores drag is overly high though, it's not going to match the F-16, so I'll just switch over to the Falcon as my fighter of choice until hopefully we get a F-15 someday.

 

 

I agree, and yes loaded properly those disadvantages can be drastically minimized. The same thing is conversely true of the F-16, There's a huge difference in performance between a slick F-16 and one properly equipped for a combat mission. Even so the viper is still gonna come out on top but not by a massive margin when we factor in realistic stores configurations. They both just need to be flown to their respective strengths.

 

 

 

I would love a F-15C with an ASM.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Wizard_03

[Cupra]

This discussion always remembers me on a story a F-11 driver told me last year.. they had some BFM with US F-15C. He is flying F-16A MLU from the Royal Netherlands Air Force. The had to move away until one of them can`t see the other jet. Then they had to call "fights on" and it startet.. the command always came from the Eagle, the Viperdriver was able so see him still very well and even ID him as F-15... but he was nearly not seen anymore. The F-16 is a very small plane.. makes it also very dangerous…

 

There is not the best or perfect jet. Each plane has its points wehre it gets very well, and there are also things that do not perform that good. If you think of the first F-16, planned and designed as a lightwheigt day-only short range air defense jet and then you take the new F-16V Block 70... that developement was extreme. And not just US versions. Other countries also did a lot of work to make those planes better and better.

But the perfect one… does not exist.