Mig-29A vs Mig-29S in game ?

[Pilotasso]

In what way? :huh:

[SwingKid]

In what way? :huh:

 

They were both using only SARH missiles, for one. Good-bye "Western-style TWS"

 

-SK

[D-Scythe]

The F-16 radar against the MiG-29 radar is not a fair comparison?

 

I just think an APG-65 comparison would be more "fair."

[SwingKid]

The Canadian Armed Forces once had a downloadable video in which you could watch and hear a pilot cursing as it took three or four attempts for the APG-65 to lock up a ship, in an apparently zero clutter environment.

 

Also interesting is that the APG-65 was well within its service life when the USN decided to replace it completely, fobbing it off onto Marine Corps Harrier IIs because they were still too new to throw out (helping transform the Harrier fleet into a maintenance fiasco in the process). No upgrades, thanks - only a complete replacement would do.

 

-SK

[Pilotasso]

The Canadian Armed Forces once had a downloadable video in which you could watch and hear a pilot cursing as it took three or four attempts for the APG-65 to lock up a ship, in an apparently zero clutter environment.

-SK

 

It may have someone elses fault, not the radar. The metrology team for example. IF anyone screws the radars beam guides linup while maintaining them, lock on will be very skidish.

Rarely anyone thinks in these kinda things when targeting systems apear not to work as advertised.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

RL Russian and Ukranian Mig-29's never fielded he R-77, though it was tested with it and offered for export in modernized versions.

I just wonder, where do you draw confidence to make this kind of statements? What is your source of information in this case?

 

Sixteen of the MiG-29S (9.13S), Fulcrum C’s were delivered to the Russian Air Force in around 1993. Those fulcrums are fatbacks, with N019M Topaz radar, Ts101 digital processor and Gardeniya jammer. And yes, they were able to carry up to six (6) R-77’s. There is a picture on the net of the 9.13S prototype (05 blue) with six R-77’s on it. What makes you think, what is your source of information, claiming that the MiG-29S (9.13S) in Russian air force did not field R-77’s? Keep in mind that even one operational R-77 missile on a single MiG-29S means that the missile was actually fielded.

 

On top of that, I am still researching the MiG-29S (9.12S) to find if they were able to carry R-77’s.

[RvETito]

The thing is that these 16 MiG-29S (9-13S) that you mention officialy enters service for the RAF in 1994, without the R-77. AFAIK it's still not in service for the Russian Air Force, remind you that Vympel is a an ukrainian factory which complicates the acceptance into service of the R-77. The plane might be able to carry and launch it but they simply don't have it in their disposal. Prototypes are another story, we talk about serial machines here. Have you seen a picture of serial 9-13S with R-77 attached? I haven't.

[RvEYoda]

Before thinking that the mi29 has a super radar I think everyone should keep in mind that they for the early versions had to pretty much cancel plans on using the ER missiles on the plane, just because the radar was too weak to support it at good distances.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The thing is that these 16 MiG-29S (9-13S) that you mention officialy enters service for the RAF in 1994, without the R-77.

How do you know? What is your source of information?

AFAIK it's still not in service for the Russian Air Force, remind you that Vympel is a an ukrainian factory which complicates the acceptance into service of the R-77.

9.13S modification on two prototype MiG’s took place in 1988 and 1989. The 9.13S WPC was tested and fully operational, including live firing of the R-77, by 1993. The 05 blue was the first MiG-29 ever to simultaneously launch two R-77’s at two targets. There was no problem with Russians accepting R-77. I do not understand where was the problem with Russians accepting R-77?

The plane might be able to carry and launch it but they simply don't have it in their disposal.

How do you know? Where did you get that info?

Prototypes are another story, we talk about serial machines here. Have you seen a picture of serial 9-13S with R-77 attached? I haven't.

Do you have any pictures of the 9.13S with live R-27ER, or R-73, or R-27ET? Do you have any picture of the MiG-29S (9.13S) in service? I don’t.

 

BTW, I have pictures of MiG-29S (9.12S upgrade) on display with R-77 (probably inert or dummy) attached to its under-wing pylons.

[RvETito]

How do you know? What is your source of information?

Russian Air Force official press release.

 

9.13S modification on two prototype MiG’s took place in 1988 and 1989. The 9.13S WPC was tested and fully operational, including live firing of the R-77, by 1993. The 05 blue was the first MiG-29 ever to simultaneously launch two R-77’s at two targets. There was no problem with Russians accepting R-77. I do not understand where was the problem with Russians accepting R-77?

The problem is the same as why they have accepted in service only 16 of the 50 serial produced 9-13S.

 

Do you have any pictures of the 9.13S with live R-27ER, or R-73, or R-27ET? Do you have any picture of the MiG-29S (9.13S) in service? I don’t.

 

In service? The net it full of such pictures but in none of them there's serial 9-13S within the RAF with R-77 attached. At least I haven't seen.

[SwingKid]

One of the problems with the R-77 was that, desperate for cash, the Ukrainians had already sold it for pennies to the US by the time it was passing tests in Russia. This, together with other factors (e.g. the per-unit manufacturing costs when you have only 16 aircraft that can carry it) made it an extremely unattractive missile for Russia to purchase.

 

I don't know what "official press release" AirTito is talking about (I'd be unwilling to believe one from Russia anyway), but ED team members have spoken to people from Vympel who confirmed that after the testing, R-77 orders in Russia were practically zero. The few examples that continued to be produced were only for continued development of the "all-Russian" RVV-AE, with which the R-77 is often confused. The RVV-AE appears to be more promising, but it was developed for export customers, and finished testing only recently. With the continuing instability in Ukraine, a Russian-made RVV-AE would make a better choice for the Russian Air Force, except that after 15 years, Russia seems to have proven to its decision-makers that it has no need for AAMs, when it can simply shut off the pipelines. Thus, Vympel continues to receive no orders.

 

-SK

[Pilotasso]

how did this get resurrected??

[Presing]

Did not check time of posting. But it's the same MiG-29's do not need GCI control.