Radar question

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

In the Eagle I'm having problems finding targets that are high above me or very low below me at close range, If I'm flying at 2000 and I have a contact directly above me at my 12oclock at angels 20000 and that contact is 8 - 10nm away should I be able to slew the radar up using the ; key and find the contact?, any input would be helpful.

 

Thanks in advance.

[Frostie]

Yes correct, the scale down the left side of the radar should tell you at what altitude your looking at, this directly corresponds with the position of your target designator.

So if your bandit is say 8miles away and at angels 20, then move the designator to approx 8miles then move the radar elevation to cover 20000feet (eg. 22 over 18 )

[GGTharos]

You should be using an automode once at 10nm. Forget TWStracking at that point, you'll just lose the target.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

Ok guys thanks for the input I've been having problems finding close contacts at high or low altitude! GG when you say autmode do you mean VS mode?.

 

Just one more thing if you can please answer this.

 

Am I right in saying that if I scan the radar and the contact is within the scan height IE contact is angels 20 I'm at 3000 and scanning between 15000 - 25000 should the radar pick up the contact instantly?, or is there a delay? if there is a delat do you know approximatley how long the delay is. Hope you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

Thanks again.

[GGTharos]

VS/Boresight/Guns, whichever suits your engagement. Once they're inside 10nm, and with that sort of altitude difference, you should use one of those, or go to STT, as the target will move through your radar zone in TWS so fast you'll lose it, and you have no business wasting time screwing aorund with radar antenna elevation at that point, since they're likely putting missiles on you already.

Yes, that does mean you have to go to STT before they hit 10nm (just before) or acquire them visually and use an auto-mode.

The scan time for the 3 bars at 120 deg azimush is 4 sec. That's your delay when scanning. At 60 azimuth it's 2 sec ;)

 

 

In short, if you are SCANNING with radar for contacts at close range at any altitude other than your own, you're hosed. PUT THOSE EYES OUT OF THE COCKPIT!

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

VS/Boresight/Guns, whichever suits your engagement. Once they're inside 10nm, and with that sort of altitude difference, you should use one of those, or go to STT, as the target will move through your radar zone in TWS so fast you'll lose it, and you have no business wasting time screwing aorund with radar antenna elevation at that point, since they're likely putting missiles on you already.

Yes, that does mean you have to go to STT before they hit 10nm (just before) or acquire them visually and use an auto-mode.

The scan time for the 3 bars at 120 deg azimush is 4 sec. That's your delay when scanning. At 60 azimuth it's 2 sec ;)

 

 

In short, if you are SCANNING with radar for contacts at close range at any altitude other than your own, you're hosed. PUT THOSE EYES OUT OF THE COCKPIT!

 

GG you explained this really well I now understand most of your post but can you please tell me in laymans terms what you mean by "The scan time for the 3 bars at 120 deg azimush is 4 sec. That's your delay when scanning. At 60 azimuth it's 2 sec".

 

I bet I look real thick now lol.

[GGTharos]

Ah, doh, it's 4 bars actually. A bar is a left/right sweep of the antenna, each bar is swept at a different elevation, thus allowing the radar to cover a certain scan volume.

Azimuth is the width of the scan, and in the F-15 it can be the full 120 deg left-right, or it can be reduced to 60 deg and panned; use ctrl -/ctrl + to change azimuth.

[Frostie]

One of the main problems with the F-15 radar is a lack of IFF, so if your scenario is of just spotting an aircraft in close proximity, rather than lock up in auto mode you will need to check its IFF status by not locking just finding the target on radar.

[GGTharos]

One of the main things wrong with F-15C radar in LO is that it's a copy-paste of the flanker radar and behaves as such; the real thing is capable of picking up and tracking targets at ranges greater than those of its russian counterparts, and it features much more automation. Nevermind IFF - you can theoretically use the NCTR or hopefully your superior SA to deal with that. So :P

 

Anyway, once you're within 10nm, automode is it, it's too late for trying to IFF things - you'll just get yourself shot down doing that. Find a better way.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

Guys you have helped me no end and the biggest lesson I have learnt from this discussion is when a bogey is within 10 nm to take your eyes out the cockpit, seriously thanks for helping me both of you.

 

GG what is NCTR?

[GGTharos]

You should take'em out well before that. What if this guy's drawing y our attention while his buddy's coming up on your flank? ;)

 

NCTR is Non-Cooperative Target Recognition. It uses the target's radar signature to identify the type of aircraft that is the target.

[S77th-GOYA]

GG what is NCTR?

 

I'm not GG but look at my post here for your answer:

 

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=26785

 

NCTR doesn't work beyond 25nm range to target.

 

Also, my advice to you is to get better at putting your scan cone where it needs to be. The following represents you at 2000ft and your target at 20,000 ft at a range of 9nm. It is made to scale. The blue represents your scan cone. Note that you have plenty of room in your cone at that range to keep the bandit illuminated.

 

 

Here's what it looks like in pit:

 

 

I would suggest that if you wait for a lock in one of the auto-modes at that range, your going to be busy picking missiles out of your teeth.

 

Learn to use TWS and use it as much as you can. At closer ranges it becomes a problem keeping the target in the cone, but not at the ranges you are talking about.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

Goya thanks for the pic of the scan cone it's very informative.

 

Am I right in saying that if I'm scanning for the enemy at close range and he is OUT of my scan zone his RWR/TEWS wont pick up my radar transmissions?.

 

Sorry for all these questions but I need to know these things. If you can take the time to answer a few more questions I'd be greatful.

 

If an IR missile is fired at me do I have to shut the throttle right down and flare or just stay off the burner and flare?.

 

I have taken alot of HOJ shots at angels 20-30 on low flying enemy targets and never managed to hit a single fighter, I track the HOJ for as long as possible and I know there definatley within range because there right below me, what am I doing wrong?.

 

My AIM120 PK is better when I fire on a target in visual mode without lock, does the bogey get a launch warning when a missile is fired at them in visual mode?.

 

Sorry for this guys, but I ask because I need to know.

[Frostie]

Your radar will be visible to him 99% of the time whether your scanning him or not.

 

IR shots Less heat from your plane less chance of being hit.

 

I find HOJ shots work best at a similair or lower altitude to the bandit, if your higher they usually fly over the target.

 

The closer a bandit is to you the higher your missiles Pk will be within reason, they're could be a case for initial launch direction having an impact on pk when comparing an 8nm shot using radar and maddogging a 120 at a visual target 8nm out. Obviously when maddogging you would point your nose right at the bandit but locking in radar and firing the bandit could be launched at gimbals which in game could possibly be causing a lower pk.

[S77th-GOYA]

Goya thanks for the pic of the scan cone it's very informative.

 

Am I right in saying that if I'm scanning for the enemy at close range and he is OUT of my scan zone his RWR/TEWS wont pick up my radar transmissions?.

 

If an IR missile is fired at me do I have to shut the throttle right down and flare or just stay off the burner and flare?.

 

1. Yes,

2. I wouldn't close the throttle because another thing you should do is evade. Try going full military power, flaring and make a high-G maneuver just before the missile reaches you.

 

 

I have taken alot of HOJ shots at angels 20-30 on low flying enemy targets and never managed to hit a single fighter, I track the HOJ for as long as possible and I know there definatley within range because there right below me, what am I doing wrong?.

 

My AIM120 PK is better when I fire on a target in visual mode without lock, does the bogey get a launch warning when a missile is fired at them in visual mode?.

 

3. The look-down capability of the F-15 is painfully lacking in LOMAC. You probably aren't doing anything wrong. But if you are at angels 20-30 and the target is right below you, haven't they reached burn-through?

 

4. They should get a warning when the 120 goes active at ~ 7nm or if you launch closer than that, they will get a warning when the 120 comes off the rail. The only way they would get a launch warning beyond ~7nm is if you had an STT lock.

[Guest Crazy_Eyes]

Thanks for the replys, If I understand your post correctly if I launch an amraam in TWS mode at 8+nm's the bogey does not get a launch warning?.

 

I have done some tests with labels on and I have found that the amraam when launched at full speed straight ahead only travels 3.6 NM before I start to catch up with it, it's range is not very good, In futre I think I need to launch at 8-nm's for a good PK rate.

 

Regarding the burn through rate they are right below me but I still havent reached the burn through rate I think the altitude diffrence may make them look alot closer than they are because I think the burn through rate is about 12-14 nm, I will post a screenie next time and post it.

[S77th-konkussion]

Thanks for the replys, If I understand your post correctly if I launch an amraam in TWS mode at 8+nm's the bogey does not get a launch warning?

 

Only against a live player. The live player will not get a lock warning either. The AI are all-knowing. They can cheat and yet they generally suck at the same time..