Hotas Warthog, Logitech X55 or what else?

[panph90]

Hi everyone, today I'm here for a simple but complex question. Which is the best Hotas for our purpose? And here's the deal. I said purpose and not best hotas for DCS.

If I would use the hotas only for dcs, I would not have any doubt. HOTAS Warthog just right now.

But if we use for other sims or games, is it the best anyway?

Now I have an old (but gold) Saitek X52 Pro bought in 2006 and still without any problem, so happy with it. But the "button hungry" of any dcs module let me use lots of modifier, and I have to remember all the combinations, and it's a big deal. I'd like to have more versatility with more buttons.

BUT, I've been using Flight Simulator as well for civilian trips around the world and this fall with the new FS2020 things will come even better.

My question is: does the Hotas Warthog fit well even for civilian use? I think there's not enough axis, maybe for flaps or spoiler, propeller or mixture, and not enough buttons on the throttle (and on the throttle every button has label...)

So my second choice could be the X55, but I heard lot of complain about build quality... And it haven't the "TDC" in the front of the throttle.

 

Which is the best solution to meet both military and civilian usage?

Do you feel comfy using Warthog in FS? or on the other hand, is X55 great for dcs?

[Sniper34]

Prefer the new LOGITECH X56, it is more reliable

[VpR81]

I'm not flying civilian flight simulators, but will try to help you out at least a little bit as i had the X-52, the X-55 and switched to the Warthog 2 years ago.

 

The X-55 has very poor quality when it comes to electronics/internals. It suffers from ghosting as power supply isn't stable. Some people could solve that by plugging it into a powered USB Hub, but that doesen't work for everyone facing this issue. I had a few buttons stopped working right after warranty ended. Another issue is the throttle friction wheel. If you tight the friction too much, it somehow causes issues with buttons. Means, at certain throttle positions some buttons won't work anymore. I had this problem as well. The X-55 isn't produced anymore, there is only the new X-56 wich is literally the same HOTAS. Saitek/Logitech hasn't solved any of these problems and some ppl say quality got even worse compared to the X-55. I'd highly recommend not to purchase the X-56, no matter what you want to use it for.

 

The Warthog has it's flaws, but is a complete different world to the Saitek/Logitech plastic products. Starts with the metal housing and ends with the much better button quality/response of the Warthog. The crappy slew control on the throttle and the plastic gimbal of the Joystick base are the things that have to be mentioned when talking about it's flaws. The gimbal needs regreasing from time to time and can break if used too much force on it. The stock slew control is pretty much useless, at least for me. But there are replacement mods for it available wich work great and are easy to install. This is also another huge advantage over the X-55/56, the Warthogs options for customisation and modification. Also the compatibility to other manufactors, like Virpil and Realsimulator as they all share the same PS2 connectors for the Joystick bases and grips. In terms of buttons number, i'd say the Warthog throttle is on par with the X-55/56 with a slight advantage for the X-55/56. Until some buttons stop working on the X-55/56.

 

If you want something better than the Warthog, it gets pretty pricey. A good alternative to the Warthog throttle is the Virpil T50CM2 throttle. For me a no-go as it lacks afterburner detents, but providing excellent quality, metal housing and a lot of buttons, switches and a 5(?) mode selector switch. It's only a bit more expensive than the Warthog, but hard to get as Virpil is very boutique and has low production numbers. These throttles are regulary sold out a few seconds after shop restock. Virpils WarBRD base is also a great alternative to the Warthog base, providing a metal gimbal and easy to switch cams and springs. VKB offers excellent Sticks as well, but no throttle yet. Any other throttle/HOTAS set providing equal or better quality is significant more expensive, such as the WinWing F/A-18 Hornet HOTAS replica wich almost hits the 1000$ mark.

 

edit: As you are looking for as much buttons to map as possible, have you though of getting a additional button box or TM cougar MFDs? I think that would solve your button problem with any HOTAS you'd purchase...

 

I hope that helped a bit.

 

Cheers

Edited April 18, 2020 by VpR81

[panph90]

VpR81 thank you for your great reply.

 

As you said, i think i won't choose the logitech/saitek one due to construction problem, i read too much about that, even thoug i have my Saitek X52pro since 2006 and, despite some problem regard to the plastics, the hardware is still working great after near 20 years of service.

I've been waiting so long for new Gseries products to look for, but i think that's not a logitech priority if X56/52 is still selling good.

 

As you said, the warthog can count on a great customisation for the stick, which is a great point for it. I can not use MDFs because i use VR headset, and i hope FS2020 will improve their software for VR too, with vr is difficult to reach button even on the keyboard, the mdfs is impossible, so i need an hotas with as much buttons as possible.

 

I saw the virpil you told me, great stick and it looks even better than the TM warthog (talking about build quality), with the TM base could be a great customization. The WinWing f18 is in my wishlist since it came out, but i think is too specific for it, it has not has much buttons as the A10c stick, so it works great for f18 but i could be at the start point with the other modules, as other civilian simulators.

 

Counting the hours i spent in simulators (pretty new to dsc, near 300hrs, and over 2000+ hrs on FSX) i can invest a discrete amount of money in this device, hoping it will last as long as my X52 pro.

 

in this moment, the warthog is the best choice, despite i'm not convinced due to "axis lack" for flaps and spoilers for civilian sims. I have no hurry for buying a new one, just looking around and waiting for the "perfect one" (maybe a new Gseries joystick that will never arrive), or when my x52 will give up his life :)

[VpR81]

The X-52 was of significant better quality as the X-55. If you want something new and way better, i think the best way to go right now is a combination of different manufactors. I.e. i use a Virpil WarBRD base with a Warthog grip attached, wich is a great combination imo. If you aren't in a hurry for a new throttle, the VKB TECS might be interesting for you. But it is still under developement and i'm not aware of any release date

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=199002

 

Also i would still go for a Virpil base instead of a VKB one, as VKB has different connectors and aren't compatible to Virpil, TM and Realsimulator grips. This would limit your choice of grips, if you wan't to get additional grips one day. If not, VKB is a good, but rather expensive choice. There are adaptors, but these demand disassembling of the grip and replacing the connectors. Also these adaptors are almost impossible to get, as they're always out of stock. I've never seen them available. Nonetheless VKB is high end quality, their bases and their grips. For Virpil i would consider the base, not so much the grips. Their bases are excellent, especially the WarBRD, but their grips can't compete with those of Thrustmaster IMO. Especially button response/quality.

 

If i were you, i wouldn't take MFDs or button boxes out of account. I've seen a lot of great solutions for VR. Some ppl use small silicone knobs on a few MFD buttons to make it easy to feel if they got the right one. And muscle memory will also help after a while. I'm still scared off from VR due to the bad performace and the numerous issues in DCS, but would have no concerns about using my mounted MFDs in VR. On a desk it may be a bit more difficult, but not so much i guess.

 

Also button boxes are a good way to get more buttons and especially more axis. I wouldn't rate using them in VR too difficult and there are some interesting options out there. DSD would be the first coming to my mind. Their quality is said to be excellent, the prices are reasonable, they offer a huge variety of different button controllers and it's not made in China. Most ppl don't care, but i appreciate when companies stay at home to keep the jobs in their country. One of my RL friends owns two DSD Button Boxes for simracing in VR and according to him, purchasing those was one of the best investments in his hobby. He's absolutely happy with them and has no issues using them in VR.

 

https://derekspearedesigns.com/button-controllers.html

Edited April 18, 2020 by VpR81

[BuzzU]

Keep in mind you can use Voice Attack for a lot of key presses. You don't need to put everything on a HOTAS.

[reece146]

I've been pretty happy with the T.16000 Hotas. It's plastic but decently ergo and the switches themselves feel really good/strong/reliable. It's definitely budge compared to the equipment others have listed.

 

I've been using it since the new year after being away from flight sims for 20+ years.

 

I don't have anything new-ish to compare against. I considered the X-52 but after reading the more "clueful" reviews on amazon decided against it - I don't have the patience to play "QA Lottery".

 

FWIW, my buddy also bought the X-52 recently and he is happy with it but I have not seen it.

 

My only criticism of the 16000 is that I wish the centre detent on the rudder pedals was more pronounced and I wish there was a pinky finger on the stick itself to use as a nose wheel brake trigger. Minor quibbles. I was looking at the X-52 just for dual throttle but so far haven't missed that feature (been flying Spits, Stangs and Sabres mostly, haven't gotten deep enough into the F-5 or F-18 to need/want it yet).

 

HTH

Edited April 18, 2020 by reece146

[panph90]

VpR81 you make me see the light :lol:

 

I decided to buy a Virpil T50CM2 throttle. I saw lot of review, even though the older models are "better" i think this is a great configuration to fit my needs.

ok, the detents missing is a big deal. I thought not to buy it because of this lack. Then i saw this thread:

https://forums.mudspike.com/t/throttle-finger-lifts/9954

 

This fits for the t50 model, the one for cm2 is on its way. I have the stp file of these pieces, so if i find someone to print these i'll try to test myself to modify and fit for CM2, or at least wait for the mod.

 

For the grip, i'll buy Virpil too, but i need a desktop base, so the T50cm2 is too high... it would have been perfect, similar to warthog.

So i'll buy the Constellation alpha when available with the warbrd base. It has "only" 3 hats on the stick, but i watched the tutorials for the virpil software and i saw that is possible to configure the analog stick to work as 4 buttons, just to make it as close as the warthog button configuration. This way i could have the trim hat, DMS and the "virutal" TMS, and the one for CMS.

Bit expensive, but it seems to be the perfect solution. Hope it will last other 20 years of service :D

[VWJ]

From my experience (from X55 to Warthog), I can also confirm the troubles with X55 but more importantly I like that when it comes to Warthog or similar HOTAS, besides the very good performance and build quality out of the box, you can upgrade it in the future without completely changing the setup.

In the recent year I upgraded slew sensor on WH throttle and base of the stick.

It certainly could be argued that the upgrade is price-wise the same as getting a new HOTAS set or very close to it, but I find it better to significantly upgrade the performance rather that iterate between mid-tear equipment.

[VpR81]

Glad to hear that. Virpil is definately a good choice you won't regret, especially the WarBRD base is a excellent piece of equipment. I love mine, it's realy great. If you have some budget left, invest the 20€ in a throttle and stick dust cover. It may help the Hotas serving you well a long time. Same for additional equipment, as the WarBRD base only comes with 2 sets of springs (soft, heavy) and cams (avia sim soft center, avia sim no center). If you are playing other games besides DCS/Flight sims, the extra heavy springs and both cosmo sim cam sets (soft center/no center) may be a good investment as well. I purchased both, because i like some versatility for my other games.

 

TM offers the Warthog/F-16 grip now standalone without the base. For exactly the same price Virpil offers the Constellation-Alpha grips for, but propably much better availability. If the Warthog grip is an option for you, that may be interesting for you. Search for TM F16 grip standalone or similar and you should find it.

[panph90]

Glad to hear that. Virpil is definately a good choice you won't regret, especially the WarBRD base is a excellent piece of equipment. I love mine, it's realy great. If you have some budget left, invest the 20€ in a throttle and stick dust cover. It may help the Hotas serving you well a long time. Same for additional equipment, as the WarBRD base only comes with 2 sets of springs (soft, heavy) and cams (avia sim soft center, avia sim no center). If you are playing other games besides DCS/Flight sims, the extra heavy springs and both cosmo sim cam sets (soft center/no center) may be a good investment as well. I purchased both, because i like some versatility for my other games.

 

TM offers the Warthog/F-16 grip now standalone without the base. For exactly the same price Virpil offers the Constellation-Alpha grips for, but propably much better availability. If the Warthog grip is an option for you, that may be interesting for you. Search for TM F16 grip standalone or similar and you should find it.

 

I managed to get one CM2 throttle yesterday, as you said all items goes out of stock in a while.. 5.45 gmt the add to cart button was on, 6.10 out of stock.

Now I can't wait to put my hands on it. One thing I'll be missing will be the mouse pointer and buttons on throttle like my X52 pro, but on a thread I created in virpil section seems like with a simple software I can emulate the mouse with hat and buttons.

 

For the stick, happy to read you're happy with the warbrd gimbal. I hope I can get them both when constellation alpha will be available... I was thinking to buy it yesterday but if I buy grip and base on same order I'll have 10% discount on both items...

Do you have the warbrd base on desktop or with a desk mount?

Im going to use it on desktop but if I'd like to place on desk mount in future, is it comfortable? I read it might be problematic because with the grip is possible to hit the mount.

 

I don't think I'll buy more than 1 grip, so ivll buy the one most fit my needs. The constellation alpha might be the right choice, few more buttons than the warthog and 1 analog stick, it might be useful on civilian Sims.

[mungo13]

For the stick, happy to read you're happy with the warbrd gimbal. I hope I can get them both when constellation alpha will be available... I was thinking to buy it yesterday but if I buy grip and base on same order I'll have 10% discount on both items...

Do you have the warbrd base on desktop or with a desk mount?

Im going to use it on desktop but if I'd like to place on desk mount in future, is it comfortable? I read it might be problematic because with the grip is possible to hit the mount.

Wait for clarification by someone who has it, but that mount hit issue should be related to WarBRD base with extension (another discussed topic) and older straight 90-degree mount (or maybe similar 3d-party mounts).

 

New Virpil mounts are already angled and that should increase the separation

[VpR81]

Congrats on that Virpil throttle, these are realy difficult to get. You're a lucky guy, beeing able to purchase one few days after deciding to get one. Definately a rare Virpil story. As for my WarBRD base, i have it attached to a mounting rail on my simrig, using it as sidestick. The original baseplate of the WarBRD base is very light and can be used on a desk without any issues, as long as you use the soft springs. The heavy ones might cause some stability issues, but i haven't tested it as i never used it on a desk. There are adaptor plates available for various desk mounts, making it easy to attach it to one of them. The WarBRD base aout the same deflection as the Warthog base and most desk mounts can handle the Warthog without hitting the mount, such as Monstertech or Foxx Mounts. Virpil also offers a universal compact baseplate, compatible with both the Warthog base and the WarBRD base (i think even with the T50). I used this one to attach the base to the mounting rail

 

I don't think I'll buy more than 1 grip, so ivll buy the one most fit my needs.

 

Ha, that's exactly what i thought when i got the Warthog. But then the Hornet grip hit the market, the WarBRD base became interesting and now the Virpil VFX grip has catched my eyes as i consider getting the DCS F-14 Tomcat. Simply love holding the stick of the aircraft i'm actually flying. Having a base compatible to various grip manufactors can get expensive over time... :D

 

This is how i mounted my Virpil base:

Edited April 26, 2020 by VpR81