MVP F86F Sabre Sim Pit - Build Blog

[[MVP] Mugga]

A massive shout out and thank you to [MVP] IndianaShane who has taken on the task of reworking of the original UHF Radio Control Panel AN/ARC-27.  This has entailed removing all of the internals and replacing them with modern kit, along with some custom engineering to keep the original old-school clicky-ness!

I asked [MVP] IndianaShane for some comments on his work:

"Mugga had sent me the radio panel a while back to find a solution to make the original channel selector mechanism work with modern electronics, keeping the solid original feeling but having the ease of programming and wiring.  I decided a rotary encoder was the best option and had to figure out a mounting system for one to fit the original mechanism.  The design consists of a step up bracket and collar with 2 grub screws to fasten both selector shafts together.  Luckily the rotary encoder has the same throw as the original switch allowing for a direct connection without the need for gearing.  The final design will consist of a single height step up and an aluminum collar.  I replaced the original parts with a modern multi-position rotary switch and a new potentiometer and wired it all up to a 25 pin connector that will be fitted to the original housing making it almost plug and play with DCS BIOS."

The MVP team are the greatest - thank you again Indi... you are awesome!

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Managed to get the Bomb Pipper Control Box fascia card cleaned up today and reinstalled.  You can also see the freshly painted base plate sitting under the box as well.  The face card is anodized alloy and is in remarkable condition given its age and that it survived the scrap yard!  The dark area on the card is where the flip cards sat over the top, protecting it from sunlight.  The faded area to the right and where the flip card cutout is, is from 70+ years of direct sunlight in the cockpit.  The next job is to paint-strip the flip card hinge and repaint the attachment brackets and reinstall.  I also have to clean up the metal end-plug and repaint it, along with connect the new wiring harness and connectors.

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Several months ago, I purchased an original F86F Sabre Main Canopy assembly, which is now in transit to me!  The plan is to integrate a fully working canopy frame assembly etc.

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Spent some time this evening working on the cockpit defroster selector, which is located on the left hand console control panel.  I have made a paper template of the selector fascia and will take that down to the workshop and cut out an aluminum duplicate, drill out the attachment holes and selector slide etc.

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Tracked down and purchased a brand-new (NOS) IFF Control Panel, dated manufacture of 1955!  Once the unit arrives into Australia, I will ship it across to [MVP] IndianaShane in Western Australia, where he can work his internal avionics conversion magic!

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[Scotch75]

@[MVP] Mugga, this project is brilliant mate. How do you find all of these components? Museums?? . Great to see, well done.

Cheers!



Sent from my SM-G998B using Tapatalk

[[MVP] Mugga]

Thanks @Scotch75 appreciate the kind words!  I spend a fair amount of time searching online and reaching out to warbird parts sellers etc.  Have been incredibly fortunate to find some quality equipment.  Cannot wait to start assembling the sim pit, but still lots of small assemblies and components to finish first.

[[MVP] Mugga]

More progress today on the Sabre Sim Pit, this time focusing on the left hand arm-rest assembly on the ejection seat.  I actually started this tear down many months ago, and had to stop mid-way because all of the attachment hardware (nuts and bolts, screws and fixings etc) were all rusted and frozen up.  For quite a few weeks I soaked the suspect hardware in a special aviation penetrating and lubricating oil called 'mouse-milk' (LPS branded) and today managed to get all of the hardware out - bar one rusted bolt which was given the hacksaw treatment.

With the left hand done, I will move onto the right hand side a little later this evening and if luck be on my side all of the hardware will come out easy.  If not, hacksaw treatment for those refusing to move.

With the arm-rest assemblies all reduced to components, I will media blast all of these this week and give them an epoxy primer coating, and then ready them for their finish and clear coats.  From there it will be a case of re-assembly.  I will not be re-using the original assembly hardware, instead I have kept a bag of all of the old bolts etc and will replace with cad plated aviation gear.  This will keep it all looking very 'aircraft' in its finish etc.

An interesting discovery was the painted 'DANGER' lettering on the ejection handle attachment casting (see commented photos below).  This component was given a white face and red lettering on top, which I could not see until I had removed everything.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Took some time this afternoon to drill out the original arm-rest pads in preparation for media blasting and epoxy primer coats.  The foam pads will be replaced, with new upholstery.

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Took some time this evening to draw up the Bombing Altimeter instrument/gauge in preparation for making up a replica for the sim.  To date I have not been able to find any source for an original item, so it may prove impossible to have an original fitted to the sim pit.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Photographs of the original F86F Sabre Main Canopy Air Pressure Regulation Valve, which is located at the back of the canopy frame.  This unit was last overhauled in February 1969!  This will be installed into the sim-pit but will not be functioning in any way.

 

Photographs of the original F86F Sabre Radio Compass unit, which sits behind the pilot seat attached to the Main Canopy Frame.  Again, this unit will be installed onto the Main Canopy frame for authenticity, however will not function in any way.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Have sourced an original F86F Sabre Main Canopy rear light assembly and attachment bracket.

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

F86F Sabre main canopy has arrived and has been inspected. Lots of work to be done on this assembly to bring it back to life! Unfortunately, it is well beyond use in a flying airplane, but will live out its remaining years in retirement on the Sim Pit! I should say that to make it airworthy would simply take a big pile of cash. Nothing is really ever beyond restoration or rebuild, just a question of how much you would be prepared to sink into it.

Aircraft structures when dismantled tell a very interesting story, and this canopy does that.  During it's lifetime in service, it was disassembled and re-assembled several times, with quite a few elongated and figure 8 drilled holes etc. 

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Did some alignment checks on the right hand console panel with the GBR SIGHT TEST PLUG tray and the ADF Control Panel today.

Spent some time this afternoon, cleaning up the workshop and bringing all of the F86F Sabre parts together.

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Having posted about this build on a variety of Facebook Groups that relate to DCS World and Cockpit Builds etc, I was given a link to another DCS Forum posting that discussed converting the F86F Sabre throttle quadrants for use in game!  I have included the link below.
 

 

Some additional photos of the instrument panel, left and right hand control panels and the throttle quadrant that I have sourced for this project.  You can see that the Australian CAC CA217 Mk32 Sabre Jets were not entirely identical to the F86F Sabres.  Namely that the Australian Sabre used the Rolls Royce Avon jet engine, which required a re-design of almost 50% of the internal fuselage structure to accommodate it and its accessories.

 

[Joe Lighty]

How have I only just discovered this thread?? This is epic! Well done and good luck with this project!

[[MVP] Mugga]

Spent some time last night laying out the 'LIGHT CONTROL' panel, which is located on the lower right hand console and has the instrument panel lighting rheostats on it.

For those interested in the details... face plate that I have designed is the 'reworked' or revised NAA part, which has a slight elongation to the right hand side (ie. It's not a perfect triangle).  This part can be found on Page 2-527 of the F86F Sabre Illustrated Parts Manual identifies the housing as 176-954021 - PANEL ASSEMBLY - Electrical Interior Lights Control (Reworked).  The earlier version of the panel is the 191-54120 - PANEL ASSEMBLY - Electrical Cockpit Light Rheostat.  Both are pictured in the diagrams.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Have sourced original AN3219-1 Bakelite Chicken Head pointer knobs for the lighting control panel.  Will hand them over to [MVP] IndianaShane so that he can replicate them in 3D so additional units can be 3D printed for anyone who would like them.

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[scoobie]

Beauty! Thanks for sharing the pictures and the story.
I'd like to jump back to my "favourite" bombing altimeter from another thread - you showed a drawing a few posts above.
I don't know your superpowers, but this instrument is likely to become a headache to interface it to electronics. Provided you try to recreate it in your simpit without any simplifications.
It's a real pig! You basically have three elements rotating around the same axis (axis in space). One - the cabin pressure altimeter pointer. Two - the index altitude ring/scale. Three - on top of the ring/scale - the release altitude arm/pointer, which rotates both with the ring/scale and on its own if you grab and turn it. That looks like a nightmare. You could go for concentric shafts, something like shafts in a turbofan engine, but then... they don't make "multiple coaxial absolute position encoders", I think you can't buy anything like that. So you'd have to somehow "break apart" those shafts below the face plate of the altimeter and... what - put a cog on each axis so that you can drive separate encoders (each with its own cog)? I get a headache only from thinking about it.
There's more trouble with it (e.g. possibly different "transmission ratios" between hardware and DCS), but I don't want to steal your thread too much.
It seems you need a Swiss watchmaker for the job

Maybe if you lower your expectations, you can get away with it. For example, put a rotary encoder behind the bottom-left knob, make the ring/scale motionless, throw away the arm-pointer or make it just a "decoration" (no electronic interface) and put another encoder on the non-true-to-real-thing knob for setting the arm-pointer in DCS, maybe in the top-right corner of the instrument?
I have no idea.

Anyway, I keep my fingers crossed for your simpit and I hope you'll keep posting here, it's real joy to watch and read, thanks!

[[MVP] Mugga]

Did some work this evening on the MISSILE panel, which is located at the top of the cockpit panel on the left hand side.  I have included the PNG below.  For those seeking maximum authenticity and accuracy, i have found the following discrepancies between the manufacturers data and the DCS F86F Sabre:

1.  The G LIMIT Push to Test light is part# MS24041-4 which calls for an 'AMBER' lens.  The DCS F86F Sabre uses the 'RED' lens instead; See the included screenshot of the manufacturers documentation (Page 2-554D).

2.  The Missile SALVO, RH, LH & RH selection switch labeling may not be correct.  According to the aircraft illustrated parts manual, it should be RH at the bottom, OFF in the centre and LH & RH at the top position.  See the included screenshot of the manufacturers documentation (Page 2-554D).

3.  MISSILE SAFETY switch is MISSING.  All variants of the F86 that carried missiles had a 'Missile Safety' switch in cockpit.  The version modeled in DCS would accordingly have the switch located to the right hand side of the MISSILE panel.  Again see the screenshot of the manufacturers documentation below (Page 2-554D).

4.  And... if you really want to be tedious.... the MISSILE panel support frame is not a flat plate L-Angle.... but instead is a four sided structure.  However, this is not as relevant to the functional issues above.  Again see the screenshot of the manufacturers documentation below (Page 2-554D).

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2022 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Got time to design the 'RADAR RANGE SWEEP' panel this afternoon, nothing too difficult with this one.  You can find reference to this component in the original manufacturers illustrated parts manual Page 2-567 - Part#170-74068 - NAMEPLATE, AN/APG30 Radar Potentiometer Control.  It uses the AN3220-1 bakelite control knob - which is a common control knob for the F86 Sabre cockpit.

Dimension of the backing plate is 57mm tall x 53mm wide.

Cannot believe that I have managed to track-down and source two of the black switch guards on the left hand console control panel.  [MVP] IndianaShane had spent some time producing a 3D model of the switch guard as we were confident that we would be needing to manufacture them, given they are rarely available.  The attached name plates may need to be cut down in size and painted, but that is not so much of an issue.  Just great that we now have the original top guards!

 

 

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[Awger]

On 8/10/2022 at 3:44 AM, scoobie said:

That looks like a nightmare. You could go for concentric shafts, something like shafts in a turbofan engine, but then... they don't make "multiple coaxial absolute position encoders", I think you can't buy anything like that. So you'd have to somehow "break apart" those shafts below the face plate of the altimeter and... what - put a cog on each axis so that you can drive separate encoders (each with its own cog)? I get a headache only from thinking about it.

It's actually fairly common... for sim instruments, at least, For example: a "real" altimeter has needles that are geared together, but most sim altimeters have separate drives for each needle (so that you don't have to wind/unwind to re-sync .. heavy load on the gears and a PITA for ops/maint). We've done air-core, sin/cos, 400hz syncros, etc ... the electronics are all fairly similar, mostly a question of what the mechanicals look like.

You're not far off with the watch analogy, think concentric brass tubes with press-fit gears that mesh wth gears on servos or whatever. Fairly straightforward.

Just by way of example: if you have an "old" car with a "real" needle on the speedo, there's a fair chance it's driven by an air core.

 

[[MVP] Mugga]

Am currently negotiating to acquire the above F86 Sabre canopy perspex and complete mounting frame (located in Canada) which has a really interesting history to it.  The unit is in brilliant original condition - free of scratches or cracks - and could easily be used on a flying Sabre.  If successful, this will be another fantastic addition.

Now the exciting part... the canopy was removed from the restored RCAF Golden Hawk One which Vintage Wings Canada restored a number of years ago, and which performed at airshows in both the US and Canada.  

So... the MVP F86F Sabre Sim pit will have both original RAAF Marksmen and RCAF Golden Hawks equipment installed - making this build even more epic!

Many thanks to [MVP] G.LOC (MVP Canada) who will travel out to inspect the canopy and to oversee its packing and shipping... Fingers crossed he lets it out of his hands and onto Australia.

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Spent time this evening completing the panel template for the left hand console control panel (air-conditioning and flight control alternate trim & hydraulics).  Anyone looking to make their own panels will appreciate having access to accurate artwork.

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga

[[MVP] Mugga]

Got some time this afternoon after work to tear down the right hand forward control panel in preparation for paint-stripping and repainting.  Whilst I am doing this, I will also make up a sheet metal template for the panel so that replica units can be fabricated.

Edited June 24, 2024 by [MVP] Mugga