Chaff and Flares

[Chizh]

Developers need a help from community.

 

We gather information about chaff and flare amount for each aircraft. Please point in this thread information about countermeasure amount and typical layout (chaffs/flares) for each aircraft.

 

A-10A, typical 240 RR-170; 120 MJU-7 (480)

B-1B, 8 MJU-23, for game consider 30 MJU-7 analog and 60 RR-170 analog (120)

B-52H, for game consider 192 MJU-7 analog and 1125 RR-170 analog

C-130

C-17A

E-2C, not

E-3A

F-117A, none

F-14A, typical 30 RR-170; 15 MJU-7 (60)

F-15C, typical 120 RR-170; 60 MJU-7 (240)

F-16A, typical 60 RR-170; 30 MJU-7 (120)

F-16C, typical 90 RR-170; 45 MJU-7 (180)

F-5E, typical 30 RR-170; 15 MJU-7 (60)

F/A-18A, typical 30 RR-170; 15 MJU-7 (60)

F/A-18C, typical 30 RR-170; 15 MJU-7 (60)

KC-10A

S-3B, ALE-39, typical 30 Chaff; 30 Flares (60)

Tornado GR3, for game consider 90 RR-170; 45 MJU-7 (180) analog

F-4E, typical 60 RR-170; 30 MJU-7 (120)

Tornado IDS, for game consider 90 RR-170; 45 MJU-7 (180) analog

Mirage-2000-5, Matra Spirale dispenser 112 chaff and 16 flares

 

AH-1W, 2xAN/ALE-39 = 60 Chaffs/Flares

AH-64A, 2xM-130 = 60 Chaffs/Flares

AH-64D, 2xM-130 = 60 Chaffs/Flares

CH-47D, 8xM-130 = 240 Chaffs/Flares

CH-53E, 2xAN/ALE-39 = 120 Chaffs/Flares

SH-3W

SH-60B

UH-60A

Edited June 29, 2008 by Chizh

[GGTharos]

This is a difficult question to answer in some respects. There are different flare dispensers available which can have more or less flares than other, with a corresponding change in flare size and typical flare salvo programming. I had information on F-15C and A-10A, and I can find information for 18, and 16 probably, so I will look into it.

[GGTharos]

For F-15 alone:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/F-15C_carrying_AIM-9X_maneuvers_into_a_vertical_climb.jpg

 

Look at the quad compartment on the engine nacelle in front of the main landing gear well. That's 4 CMD buckets. This is mirrored on the other nacelle, for a total of 8.

 

For A-10A:

 

http://www.fotodigimarco.eu/Aerei/19.08.06/A-10_.jpg

 

http://www.ejvk.com/Nellis/Nellis_AFB_020.jpg

 

8 buckets on wingtips (4 on each, first pic) and 8 on the gear nacelles/pods (4 on each, second pic) for a total of 16 buckets.

 

 

 

Each bucket can dispense 30 chaff and 15 flares, however those buckets come in different sizes; flares especially can come in 15,30,50 (And sometimes less than 15) per bucket.

 

The most common flare used by NATO, IIRC, is the MJU-7 flare cartridge which is loaded in 15/bucket. RR-170 chaff crtridges tend to come in 30/bucket.

 

A link to Ordtech's offering: http://www.ordtec.com/FlaresIR.html

 

This is missing the MJU-10 flare cartridge however.

Edited June 23, 2008 by GGTharos

[Feuerfalke]

AFAIK the dispensers are typically loaded in groups of 30 charges, making a few configurations possible depending on mission parameters. The F-16 had 60c/30f originally, 120c/60f from Block40/42 as standard, but can be loaded with 90c/90f or even 30c/150f.

[GGTharos]

The important thing to state is the number of buckets/dispensers ;)

Ie. F-15 has 8. Looks like the F-16 has been updated to the same number.

[Sir_Troooper]

It looks like 60 chaff/flare for the F-14A

 

[GGTharos]

The F-14A uses the AN/ALE-39 dispenser with the OMI-MJU-8 flare cartridge.

Same for F-18, IIRC.

 

Edit: Currently using MJU-27A/B in the NAVY, IIRC.

Edited June 23, 2008 by GGTharos

[GGTharos]

B-1B uses the MJU-23 flare cartridge.

[GGTharos]

A document explaining various chaff/flare dispenser operations:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/nrtc/14313_ch10.pdf

 

And another excellent resource containing explanation of chaff/flare cartridges, the dispensers that launch them, and the aircraft that carry those dispensers:

 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/navy/ntsp/EXPCM-d.htm

 

No numbers so far, but that will come.

 

Note the availability of expendable ECM/jamming devices in this document!

Edited June 23, 2008 by GGTharos

[Chizh]

For F-15 alone:

 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/F-15C_carrying_AIM-9X_maneuvers_into_a_vertical_climb.jpg

 

Look at the quad compartment on the engine nacelle in front of the main landing gear well. That's 4 CMD buckets. This is mirrored on the other nacelle, for a total of 8.

 

For A-10A:

 

http://www.fotodigimarco.eu/Aerei/19.08.06/A-10_.jpg

 

http://www.ejvk.com/Nellis/Nellis_AFB_020.jpg

 

8 buckets on wingtips (4 on each, first pic) and 8 on the gear nacelles/pods (4 on each, second pic) for a total of 16 buckets.

 

 

 

Each bucket can dispense 30 chaff and 15 flares, however those buckets come in different sizes; flares especially can come in 15,30,50 (And sometimes less than 15) per bucket.

 

The most common flare used by NATO, IIRC, is the MJU-7 flare cartridge which is loaded in 15/bucket. RR-170 chaff crtridges tend to come in 30/bucket.

 

A link to Ordtech's offering: http://www.ordtec.com/FlaresIR.html

 

This is missing the MJU-10 flare cartridge however.

As a result:

 

F-15C: 240 chaff, 120 flares.

A-10A: 480 chaff, 240 flares.

 

Correct?

[Chizh]

I'm not clear about F-16.

What for F-16A and F-16C?

[GGTharos]

Yes, if you loaded all the buckets with only one type of countermeasure, you are correct.

 

As a result:

 

F-15C: 240 chaff, 120 flares.

A-10A: 480 chaff, 240 flares.

 

Correct?

[GGTharos]

F-16C seems to have been upgraded to 8 dispensers as of block 40/42, but I cannot confirm yet.

 

I'm not clear about F-16.

What for F-16A and F-16C?

[mvsgas]

You can see the 4 buckets on the first aircraft, 3 on the left side one on the right, between the wing and the horizontal stab. IIRC, it depends more on the cartridge itself. USAF F-16, AFAIK, have 4 buckets and can be loaded with all flare or all chaff or what ever combination. Other countries with the F-16 have many different combination. Some carry extra chaff or flares in weapons pylons, some have extra buckets in the fuselage. Typical training or flight configuration will be hard to tell like GGTharos stated previously. I have seen 30 Flares per bucket and other time only 10 (bigger flares).

 

I don't think F-117 could carry them, I don't think they needed countemasures.

At least I don't see where they could be loaded.

[Feuerfalke]

Some numbers I found so far:

 

A-10A

4xAN/ALE-40V = 120 cartridges

 

B-1B

"There are eight dispensers arranged over the B-1B, with each dispenser having a capacity of twelve flares or 120 chaff cartridges. Current doctrine involves crosstraining the DSO and OSO to do each other's job if need be."

http://www.airtoaircombat.com/detail.asp?id=81

 

B-52H

"AN/ALQ-153 tail warning radar set, AN/ALT-32H high-frequency radar and communications jammers, and AN/ALT-32L high and low-band radar and communication jamming sets, ALQ-155 Power Management System which is capable of simultaneously countering a wide variety of threats using various power outputs, two AN/ALT-16A barrage-jamming sets, 12 AN/ALE-20 flare dispensers (192 flares) located six each on the lower surfaces of the horizontal stabilizers, and eight AN/ALE-24 chaff dispensers (four dispensers on the underside of each wing forward and between the flaps, with each dispenser carrying 1125 bundles). Subsequent refinements entailed replacement of the AN/ALQ-117 unit in mid-1988 by an AN/ALQ-172(V)2 active countermeasures unit, with updated countermeasures and an electronically steerable phased-array antennae farm."

http://www.airtoaircombat.com/detail.asp?id=55

 

F-14A

2x 30 = 60 charges (often removed before A2A-combat, according to different sources including the one Sir Troooper posted the picture from!)

F-15C

8x 30 = 240

 

F-16A

4x 30 = 120 charges

 

F-16C

6 x20 = 180 charges

F-5E

2x(?) AN/ALE-29 = 60 charges

 

F/A-18 A-D

2x AN/ALE-39 = 60 charges

 

F/A-18 E/F

8x AN/ALE-47 = 240 charges

 

 

F-4E

4x AN/ALE-40 = 120

 

 

Other interesting sites:

http://pages.cthome.net/fwc/AIR-RAD.HTM

 

http://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jrew/jrew1242.html

[Feuerfalke]

F-16C seems to have been upgraded to 8 dispensers as of block 40/42, but I cannot confirm yet.

 

You don't trust me, huh? :cry:

 

AFAIK only the MLU was further upgraded.

[GGTharos]

No I trust you, I just want to provide concrete proof of how many chaff/flares each dispensers will carry so that ED can point to the docs and say 'here it is'. :)

 

Good work on the additional sources; the A-10A is wrong though, at least for current A-10A's. I wonder if more were added in an upgrade or something?

Edited June 23, 2008 by GGTharos

[Chizh]

Yes, if you loaded all the buckets with only one type of countermeasure, you are correct.

In other words

 

F-15C: 240 chaff or 120 flares.

A-10A: 480 chaff or 240 flares.

 

Correct so?

[GGTharos]

Yes, correct.

 

Also a word of caution: F-15C and A-10A use the same dispenser, so they load the same numbers per bucket. Other aircraft may load their cartridges differently.

[Chizh]

What type of flares loaded to 30 per dispenser, some size like chaff?

[mvsgas]

F-16 only got 4 (block 10 to 52 , USAF,IIRC) It also depends on the country, Israel F-16 carry a lot more countermeasures. Block 52+, block 60 also carry different amounts. Additional cartridges can be added to weapon pylons also.

[GGTharos]

I have to look at some old research to find out which cartridge this was. It is possible that this cartridge is no longer used however.

[mvsgas]

[GGTharos]

That's nice, how about posting which aircraft this is? ;)

 

Chizh, MJU-61/B: http://www.armtecdefense.com/pdf/U.S._Flares_ProdSht_F.pdf

 

Link to manufacturer: http://www.armtecdefense.com/countermeasures/decoy.stm

 

Also: http://www.wallopdefence.com/aircraft_countermeasures/default.stm

 

B-1B flare layout: http://pdf.aiaa.org/preview/1997/PV1997_2963.pdf

Edited June 23, 2008 by GGTharos

[mvsgas]

Sorry dude did not even thought about it sorry. here is the link

http://www.f-16.net/gallery_item46227.html

 

Edit

That is an F-16 bucket on the left side right next to the left engine mount/ flight control accumulator gauges access panel