Ability to use F10 height and satellite map images as navigation map

[Whirley]

Images here

show the navigation map.

 

As I remember from the F10 view these maps are of very low detail.

 

I hope we will have the option to swap out for map images coming from the height map and/or the satellite image map of the F10 view. I believe these other two types of map images show a lot of details that would be useful for Mi-24 navigation.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Whirley
added image

[SmukY]

I don't think we will get reproduction of F10 maps in the moving map ... To me they are very similiar to ones which we currently see in the A-10C and Hornet

[Jun]

 

On 3/26/2020 at 3:21 PM, PilotMi8 said:

карты на картографическом индикаторе будут те, что вы купили (мы так планируем). Либо "бумажные", либо с вида F10, но они не двигаются. Двигается Визир картографического планшета, см. вложение.

 

"the maps on the map display will be the ones you bought (we are planning this). Either "paper" or from the F10 view, but they do not move. The viewfinder of the chart tablet moves, see attachment."

 

Sounds like the ability to switch between map types is a planned feature.

[Northstar98]

Okay, so presumably we'll be able to have our own map images? Obviously to the right scale.

 

@Whirley The Hind's 'map' if you will is fixed - it's like an etch a sketch where you stick a paper map in, you then dial in your initial position by placing a crosshair over it using X/Y knobs (in exactly the same fashion as an etch a sketch, I believe you can also use this to update your position in flight). Then by using the doppler navigation system to find direction and speed, the navigation system will update the position of the crosshair - kinda like a rudimentary INS, but using a doppler system instead of accelerometers and gyroscopes.

 

Take note however - the map system can only accept 2 scales, in metric - 1:200000 or 1:1000000 (i.e 1cm = 2km or 1cm = 10km if that's right) - so you might find that detail is pretty unusable given the resolution of the system.

 

 

Here's the timestamped walkaround video of a Mi-24D, where he goes over the navigation system.

 

 

 

 I'm pretty certain that you'll have to re-align the crosshair at your initial position each time you switch maps (including for maps of a different scale). 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Northstar98

[Fri13]

On 2/13/2021 at 1:52 PM, Northstar98 said:

Okay, so presumably we'll be able to have our own map images? Obviously to the right scale.

 

@Whirley The Hind's 'map' if you will is fixed - it's like an etch a sketch where you stick a paper map in, you then dial in your initial position by placing a crosshair over it using X/Y knobs (in exactly the same fashion as an etch a sketch, I believe you can also use this to update your position in flight). Then by using the doppler navigation system to find direction and speed, the navigation system will update the position of the crosshair - kinda like a rudimentary INS, but using a doppler system instead of accelerometers and gyroscopes.

 

Take note however - the map system can only accept 2 scales, in metric - 1:200000 or 1:1000000 (i.e 1cm = 2km or 1cm = 10km if that's right) - so you might find that detail is pretty unusable given the resolution of the system.

 

 I'm pretty certain that you'll have to re-align the crosshair at your initial position each time you switch maps (including for maps of a different scale). 

 

 

 

 

The navigation system allows you to get in a couple hundred meters accuracy to location. But you are anyways to use own eyes outside to know where you are and what there is. So map is just to show a surrounding area so you can navigate. The key feature really is that re-alignment you wrote, you can do corrections to position and swap the boards as required. Anyways the WSO is responsible to operate radios and stay in touch with the ground units and mark their and enemies positions on his own map and there to guide pilot with visual landmarks.

 

With a good 1:200 000 scale map one can be efficient to find a route to individual building, road, bridge etc. But that is it. As one doesn't fight with the map, it is enough that you get to proper side of the town or you search targets at proper side of the road or search at proper distance from the river etc. Visually it helps a lot for being able to narrow search for few hectares area and more accurate then with radio and visual aids.

 

Best thing is that you could use the map tiles that you have drawn the latest intelligence from own bases and important places etc. And you can easily maintain idea where they are relative to your position.

[Whirley]

On 2/13/2021 at 12:52 PM, Northstar98 said:

Okay, so presumably we'll be able to have our own map images? Obviously to the right scale.

 

@Whirley The Hind's 'map' if you will is fixed...

 

Yes, I was aware of that, but thank you for the detailed explanation as some others might not have known.

 

On 2/14/2021 at 2:10 PM, Fri13 said:

With a good 1:200 000 scale map one can be efficient to find a route to individual building, road, bridge etc. But that is it. ...

 

Thank you for the input. I have to admit I did not do the math yet and look at what scale the F10 map would be at a certain zoom level to correspond to a 1:200000 map.

 

My concern was that the F10 paper-like map that we have is very rough. In my observation it does not match the world in DCS accurately enough to locate a small forest, small lake, or town. Something that I believe we will depend upon with visual navigating in the Hind.

 

That's why I requested the feature to optionally use the other types of map display in the F10 map (satellite rendition and elevation map or what it is). And as it seems this will indeed be an option.

 

On 2/7/2021 at 4:54 PM, Jun said:

 

"the maps on the map display will be the ones you bought (we are planning this). Either "paper" or from the F10 view, but they do not move. The viewfinder of the chart tablet moves, see attachment."

 

Sounds like the ability to switch between map types is a planned feature.

Thanks for finding this and pointing it out.

 

Maybe a moderator could lock this thread, as the topic (optional map style/type) has been confirmed as a planned feature.

[Fri13]

25 minutes ago, Whirley said:

Thank you for the input. I have to admit I did not do the math yet and look at what scale the F10 map would be at a certain zoom level to correspond to a 1:200000 map.

 

My concern was that the F10 paper-like map that we have is very rough. In my observation it does not match the world in DCS accurately enough to locate a small forest, small lake, or town. Something that I believe we will depend upon with visual navigating in the Hind.

 

That's why I requested the feature to optionally use the other types of map display in the F10 map (satellite rendition and elevation map or what it is). And as it seems this will indeed be an option.

 

This is the difference between the maps that USN has for navigation and what is normal USSR era topology map from 60's, in 1:200 000 scale.

 

 

 

Comparing those two, one can see that the USN one is just waste of time for anything else than airports, large cities, powerline routes and main large roads. You can barely see a large river in the map.

 

 

This is actually requirement for all modules with a digital moving map, as right now only KA-50 is using realistic kind digital map data, that the DCS World F10 map and editor is based to:

And yet the KABRIS in it is as well able show different kind map data as well:

 

 

There were at least few old threads where was photographs of the device on the expo table with map On, and it was almost identical to what DCS offers.

The TAMMAC system that Hornet and Harrier use, they support as well customer own maps to be downloaded and used, not just obsolete USN ones that ED uses, versions that were based to the original film slides that were projected to early moving maps, and then they were digitized for the first digital map systems but were quickly replaced with far more advanced data. Why ED is likely still having the unclassified map to offer for all.

 

The Mi-24 at least offers super simple solution for whole thing, you just get a proper scale map, cut it to size of the board and glue on it. Now you can just insert that map board to its mapping box and adjust the crosshair position to where you think you are, and off you go.