Fox1 guidance failure in FC1.12a

[GGTharos]

The basic rule is this:

 

Only use ECM if you want to disguise your range, or buddies on the same heading as you to the enemy (ie. they are directly between you and the enemy - or behind you) or defensively.

 

Do not strobe your ECM online - no matter how realistic that may be when used in a 5 sec cycle, there are just too many crybabies around - though their arguments are not completely without reason.

 

Try not to fly with your ECM on. It actually takes away from your own SA, as you've found out.

 

Quick question for those of you who know the intricate modeling of this sim. I have noticed that when an R-27ER or R-77 is launched at me from near Rmax, I usually don't get an early warning until I turn my ECM off. Is there some truth to this or is it just my imagination?

 

BTW, regarding the OP, I have noticed this a lot too. I have seen many times R-27ER, and R-77 fly in a beautiful straight line to nowhere. I thought I was just getting good :D

[GTengineer]

The basic rule is this:

 

Only use ECM if you want to disguise your range, or buddies on the same heading as you to the enemy (ie. they are directly between you and the enemy - or behind you) or defensively.

 

Do not strobe your ECM online - no matter how realistic that may be when used in a 5 sec cycle, there are just too many crybabies around - though their arguments are not completely without reason.

 

Try not to fly with your ECM on. It actually takes away from your own SA, as you've found out.

 

Thanks GG

I actually don't fly online anyway. Tried it once and not really into it.

[GGTharos]

If you flew alone then I can see why. A lot of people get discouraged because usually those flying online have more experience and will whomp on you - then there's the personalities who'll just scream cheater at anything that's not stuck to the ground :D

 

But you really are missing out, despite all this :)

[FLANKERATOR]

Switching ECM on and off is associated to blinking cauz the su would never get a clean shot on you to benefit from long range Fox1s. IMO ECM are not welcomed in A2A fighting specially in an target enriched environnment since u can miss many HOJ shots against u( Friendly or not).

 

But flying music on can be interesting when u try for example to ruin the ennemy SA for a short period of time (ECMon+radar off+hard altitude/aspect change+ ECM off).

 

back now to the main subject of this topic as i bringed up 2 acmi files made during a test flight vs 1 M2000-5 with MICAs. same flight parameters but on one track the EM is lethal while on the other EM goes like a bullet. maybe those tracks can help a little bit going trought this LO mistery.

 

Download Link: http://rapidshare.com/files/141904588/Fox1_Cases.rar

Edited September 1, 2008 by FLANKERATOR

[A.S]

There is a huuuge difference

 

In "success tape" the mirage is chaffing and turning left from heading 178° to max 104°

In "failure tape" the mirage is chaffing and turning left from heading 179° to max 068° (more then 90degs)

 

At the moment where the mirage breaks more then 90deg to the left, excactly this moment you see the EM 1 n 2 turning for the chaffs.

 

The third EM 3 (the bullet one) is shot where your Angle-Off is more then 90degs right at launch second and your range is 34km...way out of "save lock"

 

But more then this...these Tapes show way more

That Loop-Shots do work in single player but not multi-player. :megalol::cry:

Edited September 1, 2008 by A.S

[FLANKERATOR]

Because of chaffing ok ....but he can turn try to notch or beam as he wants if my radar is in "Look up" profile this is not working. moreover i had stable lock on HUD during all flight.

 

 

I whish if somebody can make tracks showing ALAMOs tracking till impact on same map that i used (for same exact parameters).

 

 

Download map here:

http://rapidshare.com/files/141926631/BVR_FLANKER_FAMILY_vs_M2000-5.mis

Edited September 1, 2008 by FLANKERATOR

[A.S]

EM 4 and EM 5 (also bullets) you shoot and turn away from them so they stay close under your belly way under guidance area or limits. ( you get reflections from bandit but you broke "link" to your missiles twice here )

 

Edited September 1, 2008 by A.S

[A.S]

Because of chaffing ok ....but he can turn try to notch or beam as he wants if my radar is in "Look up" profile this is not working. moreover i had stable lock on HUD during all flight.

 

you might have had EOS lock kept but maybe the R (radarlock) disapeared that moment on hud.

for these cases it helps to switch to MED while keeping him locked. ( you wont see it but it works)

yess you was looking up ..thats correct but you was not close enough NOT to loose the lock just by his beam in combination

with his chaffing.

Edited September 1, 2008 by A.S

[FLANKERATOR]

I made tests with new informations provided by AS and......It works at 90% :)

 

Thanks AS for the very interesting informations of ur last post. S!

[cobrabase]

The R-27EM? Isn't that for knocking down cruise missiles only? I thought we couldn't use that weapon?

[A.S]

correction post #57

 

I have noticed that loosing "data-link" to your semi-active-missile (EM) cant be the reason as far as it goes for lockon-coding,

where it should be looking that EMs are also inertial, semi AND command.

That was a logical thought i had but i was told that it doesnt matter in lockon.

Maybe Yoda will add few words to this.

Edited September 2, 2008 by A.S

[S77th-konkussion]

The R-27EM? Isn't that for knocking down cruise missiles only? I thought we couldn't use that weapon?

 

 

It's fine to use. Although I think the differences in LOMAC's modeling are negligible. It is supposed to be "tuned" for low level use in RL.

[FLANKERATOR]

Attention has to be paid to the "inverted N" (R in Russian).

As long as this R is displayed under "A" (Attack mode) that means that the link (Su radar/ER-EM) is ok.

But and as Mr AS said sometimes we loose that "R" when target goes for beam or pump and we contine seeing the target locked but we dont pay attention the that very important small symbol which disappears meaning that only EOS is locking and that the fox1s are now bullets loosing their guidance.

switching to MED mod can maintain radar locking and therefore "R" symbol on the HUD. but once again if target becomes HOT again( meaning head to head aspect) u must reswitch to HI before loosing link :)

very simple but very important. With that information Su becoming even more dangerous with their BVR capabilities. only problem staying: Blinking :(

S! AS again ;)

[A.S]

the only thing what blinkers will blink away is their own lauch warning :music_whistling::smilewink:

talking bout blinking...it will blink in your hud b4 loosing lock :)

 

u must reswitch to HI before loosing link (lock) <<< depends on range ..sometimes no need to reswitch

Edited September 2, 2008 by A.S

[Pilotasso]

Whats fun is flying in a Su and see an F-15 blink while in full afterburner...talk about shooting himself in the foot :D

 

The missile trajectory is also funny. S patterns all over the place. ;)