Question regarding Mavericks and moving targets

[ClearDark]

I have tried looking for an issue here but couldn't, so here goes..

I'm loaded with 2 racks of 3xAGM-65D's, I set the Maverick to PRE, MAN handoff in the TGP, I slew to the moving target, Point Track it with TMS UP short, its locked.

Now, when I try to hand off the target to the Maverick seeker, all I get a position where I initially did a Point Track on the target, trying to re-hand off the target does not seem to work. The target keeps moving but the tracking of the seeker is where it first locked. the TGP continues to track just fine.

Am I missing something?

Is there any way to slave the Maverick seeker to the TGP?

Thanks for your time

[Xavven]

I was able to reproduce this problem. When I switch to point track, the TMS up initiates a handoff and then my mav is stuck in ground stabilization mode. Same behavior in both D and H models.

[Frederf]

First, if you want a handoff use AUTO not MAN. Consider AUTO/MAN to be "Handoff? YES/NO". If you want a handoff from TGP to missile then use AUTO every time.

Second, no you're not missing anything. The real airplane would correlate missile LOS to TGP LOS throughout the handoff enabling moving target handoff. DCS doesn't so won't.

 

There's no real point to MAN currently and I doubt it's working right. Best guess is In MAN the SOI should automatically jump to WPN format like all the other methods. Right now commanding handoff in MAN displays "handoff in progress" but it's a lie. It won't handoff ever under any condition so don't bother. For situations where you want to convert from TGP to missile track but don't want or can't use automatic handoff then MAN/AUTO selection doesn't matter. Simply get the TGP near the target (AREA recommended) then press DMS down to shift SOI to WPN to continue the engagement by slewing and TMS forward to command missile track.

 

If you want to use automatic handoff then put change MAN/AUTO to AUTO and TMS forward to point track your target and let the automagic happen. Unfortunately the automatic handoff is overly enthusiastic and tries to handoff all the time when in point mode. If the missile fails to track simply TMS aft and slew (or TMS right) to be ready to try again. If the missile tracks the wrong target then you have to SOI over to WPN, TMS aft to break track, and then go back to TGP with a recommended TMS aft to get out of point mode (or it'll try to lock again the next time you stop slewing).

[Xavven]

45 minutes ago, Frederf said:

First, if you want a handoff use AUTO not MAN. Consider AUTO/MAN to be "Handoff? YES/NO". If you want a handoff from TGP to missile then use AUTO every time.

Second, no you're not missing anything. The real airplane would correlate missile LOS to TGP LOS throughout the handoff enabling moving target handoff. DCS doesn't so won't.

 

There's no real point to MAN currently and I doubt it's working right. Best guess is In MAN the SOI should automatically jump to WPN format like all the other methods. Right now commanding handoff in MAN displays "handoff in progress" but it's a lie. It won't handoff ever under any condition so don't bother. For situations where you want to convert from TGP to missile track but don't want or can't use automatic handoff then MAN/AUTO selection doesn't matter. Simply get the TGP near the target (AREA recommended) then press DMS down to shift SOI to WPN to continue the engagement by slewing and TMS forward to command missile track.

 

If you want to use automatic handoff then put change MAN/AUTO to AUTO and TMS forward to point track your target and let the automagic happen. Unfortunately the automatic handoff is overly enthusiastic and tries to handoff all the time when in point mode. If the missile fails to track simply TMS aft and slew (or TMS right) to be ready to try again. If the missile tracks the wrong target then you have to SOI over to WPN, TMS aft to break track, and then go back to TGP with a recommended TMS aft to get out of point mode (or it'll try to lock again the next time you stop slewing).

 

Yeah, I really just pressed TMS fwd in order to switch from Area to Point. I didn't want a handoff at all. Is MAN supposed to do a handoff? I thought it wasn't supposed to, but sure enough my WPN page shows "Handoff in progress". I also thought only the AGM-65D would do a handoff, and yet it does this with the AGM-65H too. Am I mistaken or is this implemented incorrectly?

 

My preferred method is VIS anyway. I'm usually spotting a target with Mk 1 eyeball first, and the TGP I've found is slower to get mavs on target than just slewing the HUD cursor onto the thing.

[Frederf]

As far as I know MAN doesn't and shouldn't even try. It looks like it attempts it in DCS but it never succeeds. Both IIR varieties (D, G) can do a handoff. Unless you want hands off tracking of a moving target there's rarely a reason to use point mode. I'm not sure about the CCD missiles if the process can be attempted or if it's simply not recommended because it will fail.

 

I asked somebody and they said auto man are TGP acquisition modes which have no effect on missile use. In fact as of the era we're talking about they were future expansion placeholders. Trying to use them would log a fault. Interesting if true.

 

The best way to go from a visual picture to missile track I think is using automatic handoff with VIS mode. Currently DCS doesn't support it.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Frederf

[Bunny Clark]

8 hours ago, Frederf said:

There's no real point to MAN currently and I doubt it's working right.

 

There is a point to MAN mode: the use of CCD/TV variants of the Maverick like the H and K which cannot auto handoff. 

 

But yes, quite a lot of the Maverick system isn't working quite right at the moment. I believe in either PRE delivery mode the Maverick should stay caged until handoff is commanded, right now the missile seeker always follows the TGP designation, making handoff in MAN mode pointless because it's already there.