Pilot Fatigue and other Effects

[Cmptohocah]

Would be great if we could have general improvement of the effect on the pilot, such as G-force, damage, loss of pressure and so on.

At the moment it seems kind of arcade-ish that the pilot can go in and out of blackout endless number of times. It would be awesome if we had some realistic G tolerance that has a compounding effect. Would also be nice if the pilot would get tired after aggressive flying or just after some time of heavy maneuvering. I would also be nice if after the airplane gets hit, that the pilot has issues as impaired hearing, loss of visual focus and so on. 

[cfrag]

While these are indeed interesting ideas (and intriguing challenges for how this could be reflected in-game), they would probably only find a good reception from a very small minority of players, plus it would lead to endless discussions as to their realism. IIRC, and after reading some highly interesting, but less conclusive, books on the subject of Human Factors in Aviation (which has an impressively large body of publication -oooh, a pun!) there isn't even a decisive consensus on the question if and what the differences in performance are wrt male and female physiques (besides the well-documented fact that shorter bodies have less difficulties sustaining high g loads). So I prefer if ED spent their efforts on some other, less edge-case issues like ground forces AI (or rather: lack thereof) and ATC.

 

Or put it differently: dehydration (as result of a hot cockpit, a skipped breakfast and a rough night before) can have a measurable effect on your flying abilities - yet this isn't modelled. So before ED embarks on 'pilot stress modeling', we should see the option to fill in a questionnaire on what kind of food we ingested pre-departure and if we had a good night's sleep.

 

Also, the insidious thing about many of the worst effects on a pilot is that the pilot usually is the last one to recognize them. Meaning: in a simulation that is realistic, you wouldn't know anything was amiss until bam! the screen instantly goes black and you are dead because of carbon monoxide poisoning or hypoxia. 

 

[Cmptohocah]

14 hours ago, cfrag said:

...Or put it differently: dehydration (as result of a hot cockpit, a skipped breakfast and a rough night before) can have a measurable effect on your flying abilities - yet this isn't modelled. So before ED embarks on 'pilot stress modeling', we should see the option to fill in a questionnaire on what kind of food we ingested pre-departure and if we had a good night's sleep.

Let's take it one step at a time. I mean let's first model effects that would more-less affect everybody in similar manner. 
Making it all or nothing, isn't really an answer. Also the fatigue effects don't need to be super-modeled, but I highly doubt that what we have at the moment is realistic: one can yank that stick all day long with no real consequences. This aspect of air combat is grossly overlooked, and yet it plays such an important role in real air combat.
Surely pilots can't spend 1 hour pulling 8Gs and not being affected by it. Think of why F-16 has a stick next to the pilot's body which doesn't move, as opposed to a MiG-29 which needs to be moved a lot in order to fly the airplane. This is just one example, but all these details add up to bring more realistic experience.
Of course this could be added as a realism option, so people that don't enjoy RL settings can fly as they wish.

Now coming back to pilots not being ready for combat cause of "x" factors: well that could be modeled as a random failure, but since all our A/C come brand new when we spawn, it would be safe to assume that the pilots are also in best condition they could be before the sortie. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Cmptohocah

[cfrag]

I tend to agree with most of your points, especially that (done right) could make the game more interesting - my question would go more in the direction of how a realization would look in-game, if that was really more realistic (i.e. modelled on what? It's a long road from stating 'this is not modelled' to having it modelled in a way that is realistic) and if it makes the game actually better (increased realism does not generally translate into more fun, not by a long shot. The dreadfulness of RL usually is the reason we play games). How would you envision for example 'g-fatigue' would work? Progressively longer blackouts (the first thing that came to my mind)? A "stamina bar" (I don't like that at all, but I have limited imagination)? Would cockpit ergonomics (like you mentioned F-16 versus M-29) play into this?  

 

33 minutes ago, Cmptohocah said:

Now coming back to pilots not being ready for combat cause of "x" factors: well that could be modeled as a random failure

 

Couldn't all other stress factors be likely modelled as random failures? Loss of hearing -> radio failure etc.

33 minutes ago, Cmptohocah said:

since all our A/C come brand new when we spawn, it would be safe to assume that the pilots are also in best condition they could be before the sortie. 

 

Agreed. But aren't these assumptions exceedingly unrealistic? I know a day or two when I showed up on the flight line in less than pristine condition. And I know for sure others weren't either.

 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by cfrag

[Cmptohocah]

20 minutes ago, cfrag said:

... I know a day or two when I showed up on the flight line in less than pristine condition. And I know for sure others weren't either.

I see what you mean, but then we kind step out of the world of air combat (strictly speaking) and enter the world where other factors come to play: how much training pilots get, in what kind of conditions they fly and so on. For example, during NATO aggression of FR Yugoslavia, MiG-29 pilots were forced to fly beyond their limits of fatigue, but if we start taking these things into account then it might get messy, IMHO.

When it comes to how these things would be modeled. Well, I guess it would start with some pilot interviews and/or stress tests and so on. As I am not an expert in this matter, I can't really say for sure, but this is where I would start from. I am sure, plenty of RL fighter pilots would be able to give valuable input on this.

 

31 minutes ago, cfrag said:

How would you envision for example 'g-fatigue' would work? Progressively longer blackouts (the first thing that came to my mind)? A "stamina bar" (I don't like that at all, but I have limited imagination)? Would cockpit ergonomics (like you mentioned F-16 versus M-29) play into this?  

I would say, decreased G-tolerance rather than longer blackouts. You pulled 9Gs, x number of times, now you start having blurred vision/color loss at 6Gs (or what ever G should be here).
In realistic mode, there would be no stamina bar, one would just see effects, ie. no visual feedback. For the ergonomics, I would say: "Definitely, yes." I would imagine it as having 3 categories of fatigue "coefficient":
1. FBW with non-moving stick - like F-16

2. FBW with central moving stick: Su-27, F-15...

3. Mechanical central moving stick: MiG-29, MiG-21, etc.