Mission 17

[sthompson]

I'm having trouble completing this mission. I've tried many times, and with some help from Tacview have learned to down most of the convoy, including most of the air defenses, and RTB. Wingman always seems to get shot down before he can help out much. But I'm not getting "Mission Complete" and so am wondering what are the criteria here?

 

Also I find this mission impossible to fly without labels on. The poor lighting under clouds makes the ground units blend into the background. The haze on the F-5 HUD does not help in low contrast situations, and I find myself trying to look around it to see better. Is there a mod that cleans that up?

 

However, overall I'm having fun trying to work through the campaign. My only suggestion for a modification is to go a bit less heavy on the clouds and bad weather. The gloomy feel flying many of these missions makes me long for a virtual sunny day.

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by sthompson
wrong mission number in the title! corrected.

[SorelRo]

The convoy should be less than 50%. As for the weather, I grew up around Black Sea, on the other side, the weather in March stinks really bad, also, with the new very good looking clouds, I'm limited to presets rather than building the weather on my own. I know when that when I modified those mission for the new clouds those felt like the best balance. I was able to see the convoy without labels following the road low enough. I'll run a test and see how it looks like now. Maybe some things modified since the last update. 

 

You know, if you are getting frustrated, there's no shame in using the F10 and skipping it. 

[Clairvoyantwolf]

Unfortunately it appears the F10 option doesn't work for this mission.

[SorelRo]

5 hours ago, Clairvoyantwolf said:

Unfortunately it appears the F10 option doesn't work for this mission.

Just tested that mission and the F10 works, also the rest of the mission works as expected. Are you on OB or Stable? I don't see any other reason why F10 wouldn't work in your case. 

[Clairvoyantwolf]

I just tested it as well. The mission ends, but I'm not awarded a passing score (it is 50). I've previously used it with no issue. I am on stable.

[SorelRo]

4 hours ago, Clairvoyantwolf said:

I just tested it as well. The mission ends, but I'm not awarded a passing score (it is 50). I've previously used it with no issue. I am on stable.

Sorry, I was testing it on OB. That's weird, It may take some time to come up with a fix, as I'm away from the main computer for about a week. 

[sthompson]

FWIW I was eventually able to complete the mission. The key seemed to be a more effective first pass with the Snakeyes and telling my Wingman to hold position away from the engagement area until I had diminished the AA threats. When I finally got a verbal RTB it was after defeating the SAMs and AAA and most of the trucks. This was on OB. I didn't try the F10 option. In previous attempts I had received a score above 50 and results of 50 prior to returning to base and so I thought I would get the remaining 50 for "results" when I accomplished RTB. But I never got the RTB prompt and did not get a mission complete or additional score or "results."

[Clairvoyantwolf]

I was able to beat the mission the "honest" way. I was worried that it was bugged with the F10 option not working. The mission isn't really difficult, it's just annoying to execute perfectly. In any case, I tried F10 on the next mission and it gave me a passing score. I don't know why mission 17 does not. Hope that helps.

 

BTW I do rather enjoy the campaign and I look forward to the Mig-21 campaign as well.

[Odessa]

Good day SoreIRo
You said that convoy should lost more than 50% for mission success.
Do Shilka and Strela count as part of convoy? Or convoy is only trucks?
Asking because each attack pass above convoy for me it is 50/50 chance they hit me
And I prefer not to do unnecessary pass above probably alive MANPANDS and AAA.
So maybe if there only couple of trucks + Shilka + Strela left alive - it is enough?
Thanks

Edited May 19, 2023 by Odessa

[SorelRo]

2 hours ago, Odessa said:

Good day SoreIRo
You said that convoy should lost more than 50% for mission success.
Do Shilka and Strela count as part of convoy? Or convoy is only trucks?
Asking because each attack pass above convoy for me it is 50/50 chance they hit me
And I prefer not to do unnecessary pass above probably alive MANPANDS and AAA.
So maybe if there only couple of trucks + Shilka + Strela left alive - it is enough?
Thanks

 

Just to motorized vehicles are part of the convoy, so the Shilka, and the ZSU's on trucks, and the supply trucks,  the MANPADS are not part of the convoy, keep in mind that the MANPADS don't have resuply, so once they shoot they are pretty much done. It helps to pre-flare or to make a dummy run on them very fast to locate them and make them bite, this way you won't be focused on your attack and the convoy won't disperse, one pass is all you need, by now you should be surgical with your rockets and gun, or go with bombs the first time then, pick them up with rockets, 

[Odessa]

Thanks for hint "pre-flare".  Yeah, first strike the most important, otherwise wounded disperse.
I watched on Youtube how some Callsign Winkle plays your campaign. There was one more useful hint - do not attack as briefeng suggests but overfly them and hit from the back.
Attack from behind works.
I am not sure if it is Sun or hills help but I could never survive attack run if I go from WP5.
And Overlord actually says "RTB" when convoy is destroyed enough.
Mission 17 passed.
What is next?

[SorelRo]

Almost done!  There will be a few nice ones in there.

[Dragon1-1]

This is another mission that doesn't play well in the current version. Running in from the back works (so say this in the briefing!), but rockets are random by nature, and Colt flight doesn't seem to do much against the MiGs. The wingman just gets shot down, but then, AI can't really do high speed low level attacks that are the only way of surviving a run here. 

Either way, the way DCS calculates damage, 50% on a convoy this big seems excessive. As it stands, you get two passes max before the MiGs get you. If it wasn't for that, it'd still have been a painstaking effort of picking off all gun trucks with rockets or cannons.

Also the Strela-10 is not "MANPADS". It's a light IR SAM that's somewhat more capable than your average shoulder launched missile. Not by much, considering the Igla that we have is anachronistic, but it's something that would have been good to know. Also they do have onboard reloads, I saw them shoot at least three times each, though there's a delay after two launches (the crew has to pull out the spare missiles out of the trunk and load them).

[SorelRo]

Thanks a lot, I'll review it, and push an update as soon as possible. 

[Dragon1-1]

In general, this is another mission with a randomness problem, too many factors piled onto the player at once. Oh, and either make the FAC immortal or make him fly a little further, he sometimes soaks up SAMs and gets shot down.

Oh, and it's a second mission in which a "waypoint" (you really should have been using either landmarks or TACAN fixes in all mission, this isn't the Hornet) is placed right on Pshana, which is lousy with flak. Overflying it gets you shot at unless you've at 8K or so. At least enemies there are marked on the briefing map, but that same map implies it's meant to be overflown, which is a dumb thing to do.

[SorelRo]

FAC, should have been immortal and soak up some flak for you, that's a bug in this case. I'll add it to the list. 

[Dragon1-1]

I'd also suggest you reconsider using rockets on the F-5, and especially loading them together with 5xMk82. This loadout was not used IRL and there's a good reason for that. While the F-5 can fly like this, it struggles to get up to 400kts where the bombing profiles start. This is part of why all the strike missions in the campaign aren't nearly as fun to fly as they should be.

I now tried with a 5xCBU loadout, and it flies much better that way, though I have yet to figure a good attack profile that still keeps me out of the flak. In general, instead of the arcadey "haul as many individual munitions as possible" mindset, try to consider what weapons would a real air force would employ for a given sortie, and then adjust the damage expectations accordingly. CBUs are now usable, but for a lone pair of F-5s, they can't really punch a whole lot of big holes, especially if they want to live. For the same reason, the guns are generally not worth considering in a high threat environment. Another thing you should consider is flare-only CM loadout on every mission that doesn't deal with radar threats.

This is an example of what a proper QC pass should do, on every mission. There are many more improvements like this that could be made, for most missions.