Weird problem with joystick buttons.

[FeistyLemur]

So the past several days I have been troubleshooting a problem with my throttle.  I initially thought my throttle was failing because the hat switch I use for voice attack was becoming unresponsive.  So I've spent some time conversing with Virpil support over this.

 

However, the problem started to get more and more odd.  Not only would the voice attack bound hat switch stop fully responding, now another hat switch would do it.  So in my troubleshooting I ended up moving my .diff files out of my DCS folder to rebind and see if something became corrupted.  As I was doing so, the buttons on my right VPC throttle started going even more batty.  The two momentary press buttons were both registering as the same button.  In frustration I gave up for the night.

 

Today I decided to copy my old .diff files back fully bound, and try running DCS without voice attack up and running.  I flew a whole mission without any issues, and all buttons remained properly working.

 

It seems when this happens even closing voice attack and DCS, the problem will persist.  Even rebooting the computer did not solve the problem (button still acting odd after reboot using only the VPC test software to test).  It seems the only thing that works is waiting a while and the throttle buttons start working normally again.

 

So I'm kind of at a loss for how this could be a cause of this, yet the results are what they are.   Has anyone else had any similar issues with voice attack or vaicom?  I'm using Vaicom Pro with all the packs and 1.8.7 voice attack.  I guess I should probably try upgrading that as a test since its on v.1.8.9 on the website.  But still this is extremely odd behavior to me.

[MAXsenna]

The diff files are only for DCS. VoiceAttack doesn't even know about DCS.
VAICOM can only use buttons and hats from the four possible joysticks you can define in VA, so it's not a VCP problem.
I've had some issues with VA "loosing connection" to the fourth defined joystick in the past. Now, I don't know if that was solved by changing USB ports for my joysticks, or upgrading VA. VA is now fully 64bit if you decide to upgrade.
Cheers!

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[FeistyLemur]

I have just one defined joystick in voice attack and it's the CM throttle as joystick 1.  Using the forward back and center press of the lower rear hat on the throttle grip.

 

I've been running with the same install for probably years now with Vaicom doing its own auto update feature within voice attack, but have not updated VA which is still 1.8.7 and just started to notice this.

 

That doesn't sound entirely true either since Vaicom knows what module you are playing and sets itself accordingly to whether your radios are tuned.  It even displays communication results in the window.  Such as as the tanker answering back on the refueling mission I just did to try it.

 

I did have Debug mode checked in Vaicom and I'm not sure why, so I just disabled that as well as VSPX processing as another troubleshooting step.

[MAXsenna]

I have just one defined joystick in voice attack and it's the CM throttle as joystick 1.  Using the forward back and center press of the lower rear hat on the throttle grip.
 
I've been running with the same install for probably years now with Vaicom doing its own auto update feature within voice attack, but have not updated VA which is still 1.8.7 and just started to notice this.
 
That doesn't sound entirely true either since Vaicom knows what module you are playing and sets itself accordingly to whether your radios are tuned.  It even displays communication results in the window.  Such as as the tanker answering back on the refueling mission I just did to try it.
 
I did have Debug mode checked in Vaicom and I'm not sure why, so I just disabled that as well as VSPX processing as another troubleshooting step.

Some of my text got lost.
I was going to ask you what the VoiceAttack logs shows when pressing one of you're defined VAICOM TXs.
So, in the log window, does it confirm that TXs are pressed? If no, then that's a VA problem (or hardware, but you have confirmed it's not).
I sometimes had to remove the joystick mapping in VA, and then redefine the TXs inside the VAICOM profile.
Changing settings in VAICOM will not help you in anyway, unless you got the listening suspended issue.
Also know that enabling/disabling VSPX changes how VAICOM works, so remember to do the "Finish" step in the VAICOM editor. Has nothing to do with joysticks. See below.
Debug setting just enables more text and what's happening with the plugin, I always have it on as it's very handy for trouble shooting. Also not in anyway related to joysticks.
Hope this helps!
Cheers!

OT
Not trying to be a smart Ass, but it's entirely true.
Just trying to point out that it cannot be a VAICOM problem for any reason.
Of course VAICOM knows about DCS. VoiceAttack doesn't. Unless you're trying to send keybinds, then VA just knows that DCS is just another Windows app that can be target.
VAICOM is a plugin for VoiceAttack. The development of VoiceAttack and VAICOM are not affiliated. VAICOM needs you to setup/define a joystick in VA. And actually VAICOM, the program, doesn't use your joystick at all, hence VAICOM cannot be the problem. That's why you define it in the VAICOM profile inside VoiceAttack.


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[FeistyLemur]

Well, it appears to be a va/vaicom problem since it's gone when va/vaicom is not running.

 

After disabling VSPX and and debug under the vaicom tabs, my buttons have not acted up today yet while using it.  It could be a coincidence and some sporadic problem with the throttle will reoccur, but at least for now it's not recurring.

 

Not trying to be a smart ass doesn't seem entirely true either.  I was referring to Vaicom interacting with DCS not voice attack itself.  Either way it's splitting hairs just to be contrary and a waste of time.  I'm aware of what Vaicom is since I was using since it's very early days but thank you very much for the lesson on what it is.

[MAXsenna]

Apologies. English is not my first language, so I probably worded myself incorrectly.
So to answer your first question.
Yes, I've had issues with VoiceAttack losing connection to my joystick.
And like I wrote, I solved that by either upgrading VoiceAttack or changing the physical USB port for the "faulty" device, was still working in DCS, and it was never a VAICOM problem.
Cheers!

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[FeistyLemur]

It isn't losing it.  It's an issue with the buttons only specifically on the right hand throttle grip behaving erratic after a certain period of use.  I did experience VA losing the joystick as well as described, because changing USB ports was part of my troubleshooting for this issue as well.  In that case it was solved by simple removing joystick one, and re-adding it, did not even have to redo the keybinds in the Vaicom profile.

Knock on wood I hope it stays gone following my turning VSPX and debug off in Vaicom today, because my throttle is at the very end of it's warranty period which adds some urgency, and having to send it back to Lithuania would be a downer.  Especially for a very goofy and difficult to reproduce issue.

[MAXsenna]

It isn't losing it.  It's an issue with the buttons only specifically on the right hand throttle grip behaving erratic after a certain period of use.  I did experience VA losing the joystick as well as described, because changing USB ports was part of my troubleshooting for this issue as well.  In that case it was solved by simple removing joystick one, and re-adding it, did not even have to redo the keybinds in the Vaicom profile.
Knock on wood I hope it stays gone following my turning VSPX and debug off in Vaicom today, because my throttle is at the very end of it's warranty period which adds some urgency, and having to send it back to Lithuania would be a downer.  Especially for a very goofy and difficult to reproduce issue.

Yeah, that's exactly what happened to me.
Removed the joystick from VA, and rebound it. The settings in the VAICOM profile is saved, so that will use the same buttons, as long as it is rebound the the same 1-4 in VA.
It only happened for me on the 4, or maybe even 3, but then I had probably only bound 3. So the last one in that case. Haven't had the issue for some months now, and I have Steam VA, so it upgrades automatically. Didn't even know there was a .9 version.
If it happens again, you can for fun try to bind a number 2 just for show, as it was always "the last one" that had issues.
In any case, I don't think you have a hardware issue. If it happens again, just check with the Virpil software, if that shows it's okay, while still an issue in VA, you know the issue is in VA, and then I'd suggest you do an upgrade of VA.
Crossing my fingers for you!

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[MAXsenna]

Just checked the VA changelog. You're on 1.8.7 which had some joystick fixes, but 1.8.9 does too.
If you upgrade, it will still install to the same path it's currently installed in.
Just a heads up.

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[FeistyLemur]

The issue shows in the Virpil software as well.

For example last night when I was messing with trying rebinding my sticks from scratch, all of a sudden button 31 began triggering button 20.  Those are the two momentary press buttons on the right throttle face.

Closing VA and DCS entirely I brought up the Virpil software and could confirm that it was actually registering multiple physical button presses when pressing button 31 and flapping between registering as 20 or 31.  After being turned off overnight the problem went away.

It very much behaves like a hardware problem, yet I can't discount the results I got by not running VA/vaicom and then tinkering with the settings.  Though I can't really fathom how third party software would make the physical buttons misbehave on the throttle.

[sthompson]

3 hours ago, FeistyLemur said:

Even rebooting the computer did not solve the problem (button still acting odd after reboot using only the VPC test software to test).  It seems the only thing that works is waiting a while and the throttle buttons start working normally again.

If you are having the problem and you reboot but do not start VoiceAttack or DCS then you sometimes still have the problem? If so, the problem can't have anything to do with VoiceAttack or VAICOMPRO. If Virpil's own software indicates something is odd then it sounds like a hardware problem, or it could be a conflict with some other software. But can't be a conflict with VA or VCP if they haven't been started following a reboot.

 

In any event, I would stop using VoiceAttack for a while. Do a repair of DCS and delete export.lua so that no third party code is running inside DCS. See if you are still having problems. If so it isn't VA or VCP causing it.

 

[MAXsenna]

The issue shows in the Virpil software as well.
For example last night when I was messing with trying rebinding my sticks from scratch, all of a sudden button 31 began triggering button 20.  Those are the two momentary press buttons on the right throttle face.
Closing VA and DCS entirely I brought up the Virpil software and could confirm that it was actually registering multiple physical button presses when pressing button 31 and flapping between registering as 20 or 31.  After being turned off overnight the problem went away.
It very much behaves like a hardware problem, yet I can't discount the results I got by not running VA/vaicom and then tinkering with the settings.  Though I can't really fathom how third party software would make the physical buttons misbehave on the throttle.

Ouch! That really seems like a hardware issue. As when I had mine, everything was still working outside VA in DCS or whatever joystick tester software I was using. Sounds like loose cables or something unfortunately.

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[FeistyLemur]

18 minutes ago, sthompson said:

If you are having the problem and you reboot but do not start VoiceAttack or DCS then you sometimes still have the problem? If so, the problem can't have anything to do with VoiceAttack or VAICOMPRO. If Virpil's own software indicates something is odd then it sounds like a hardware problem, or it could be a conflict with some other software. But can't be a conflict with VA or VCP if they haven't been started following a reboot.

 

In any event, I would stop using VoiceAttack for a while. Do a repair of DCS and delete export.lua so that no third party code is running inside DCS. See if you are still having problems. If so it isn't VA or VCP causing it.

 

 

Yeah that's exactly what happens.  Button starts acting up.  Shut down and reboot computer, immediately bring up virpil software.  Problem is still there.  Only goes away based on time it seems.  I went away and watched a movie for a couple hours and came back and it was working at one point even without a reboot.  Or while the computers off overnight it starts working again.  Or unplug the throttle for an extended period of time and plug it back in and it works again.

 

It's very quirky.  But it is isolated to only the right grip on the throttle and so far has only appeared in some of the buttons on the grip.  I'm assuming there is some kind of board behind there all the buttons attach to since there is only a five pin cable coming down the tube to the main control board.  It could be a fault with that or any of the cabling.  Position and movement of the throttle makes no difference at all it seems.