cfrag Posted February 9 Author Posted February 9 38 minutes ago, mech79 said: Is there a way to spawn multiple troops and a CIV? Well if the CIV exists in-game you can spawn them via a cloner. AFAIK, there are no civ units except for some cars.
DD_Friar Posted February 10 Posted February 10 (edited) @mech79 If you use the "rndFlag" module you can specify a number of clone locations but only have a couple activated e.g. 2 from 4 possible locations With the clone you can also use a template for your troops If you need more help on this let me know and I will knock up a simple mission that demonstrates this. Be aware that troop movement through built up areas can be a problem however. Edited February 10 by DD_Friar Visit the Dangerdogz at www.dangerdogz.com. We are a group based on having fun (no command structure, no expectations of attendance, no formal skills required, that is not to say we can not get serious for special events, of which we have many). We play DCS and IL2 GBS. We have two groups one based in North America / Canada and one UK / Europe. Come check us out.
Recluse Posted February 10 Posted February 10 @cfrag I am having some difficulty with FARPZONES. From the documentation: • SpawnZones – since a FARP can be conquered, you should be careful when using spawn zoned inside a FARP zone. Make the spawner’s masterOwner the FARP to prevent the spawner from spawning when the FARP is owned by another faction. When I tried this, the requestable Spawner was not available to the helo, and if I forced a SPAWN, the spawned troops attacked the FARP resources (including the helo on the pad!). I thought maybe I had it wrong, and the masterOwner should be the FARP itself (Name or Unit Name) vs. the FARPZONE name, but that threw an error message. I fixed it by giving the SPAWNER a country attribute part of the same coalition as the helo, but I wonder about the masterOwner thing. Does the FARPZone need another attribute like country? (I tried that and it didn't seem to work). I also put ONE Blue unit on the FARP to trigger DCS ownership, but that didn't help. Thanks in advance.
cfrag Posted February 10 Author Posted February 10 1 hour ago, Recluse said: When I tried this, the requestable Spawner was not available to the helo, and if I forced a SPAWN, the spawned troops attacked the FARP resources (including the helo on the pad!). Well, there's always the possibility that I screwed up. Can you show the zones for the spawner and FARP so that I can have a look at the attributes? If all else fails, I can take a look at the miz itself, but with some luck we can resolve this quickly.
Recluse Posted February 10 Posted February 10 (edited) In the past, I had used an OwnedZone and cloner templates to generate the resources defenders and troops for FARPS. Thought FARPZones would save me some steps FARP Zone: MyFarpZone1 Spawn Zone (working): with Country Attribute set to USA (BLUE) Spawn Zone (not working) Trying to use masterOwner attribute The oopsie flag was to force a spawn which is where i discovered that the spawned troops were ENEMIES. I also tried putting a blue troop on the FARP to try and make it BLUE as far as DCS is concerned. Still didn't work without the COUNTRY attribute null BTW, heloTroops IS working for the UH-60L via the config: null helotrooptest.miz helotrooptest_country.miz Edited February 10 by Recluse
cfrag Posted February 10 Author Posted February 10 Please remove all mods from the mission - I can't open them otherwise.
DD_Friar Posted February 10 Posted February 10 @cfrag and @Recluse I have just sent recluse a mission that now works with the helotroops module as I too have the Blackhawk mod. Visit the Dangerdogz at www.dangerdogz.com. We are a group based on having fun (no command structure, no expectations of attendance, no formal skills required, that is not to say we can not get serious for special events, of which we have many). We play DCS and IL2 GBS. We have two groups one based in North America / Canada and one UK / Europe. Come check us out.
cfrag Posted February 10 Author Posted February 10 1 minute ago, DD_Friar said: I have just sent recluse a mission that now works with the helotroops module as I too have the Blackhawk mod. Thank you! What was the issue @Recluse ran into? (I'm always looking for ways to improve the manual)
Recluse Posted February 10 Posted February 10 21 minutes ago, cfrag said: Please remove all mods from the mission - I can't open them otherwise. OK.. the UH-60L is the only transport helo I own, so I had to put it in. I removed the Helo, so you can open the mission and slot in your own. helotrooptest_country_nohelo.miz helotrooptest_nohelo.miz
Recluse Posted February 10 Posted February 10 (edited) 23 minutes ago, cfrag said: Thank you! What was the issue @Recluse ran into? (I'm always looking for ways to improve the manual) @DD_Friar used the Country attribute, which I also found to work.. I can go that route but I was still wondering about the FARPZONE masterOwner. null Edited February 10 by Recluse
cfrag Posted February 10 Author Posted February 10 1 minute ago, Recluse said: I was still wondering about the FARPZONE masterOwner. Yeah, let's tray and get that to work
cfrag Posted February 10 Author Posted February 10 44 minutes ago, Recluse said: I can go that route but I was still wondering about the FARPZONE masterOwner. Ah, I found the issue (I believe): The spawner needs indeed the country attribute set to 2 (USA, blue) to be eligible for helotroops to show up in blue helicopters. The masterowner attribute merely controls the eligibility and of the spawner for helicopters, it does not control the owner of the spawner itself. NOTE THAT THIS IS IN STARK CONTRAST TO HOW CLONERS WORK (and, yes, that is bad API design, my apologies). The idea with spawners' master owner is that they can be made enabled depending on the ownership of a (faraway) zone. So, you did everything correctly, and probably confused a spawner's masterOwner mechanics with the identically named, but very different cloner's masterOwner mechanics. Don't worry, I confuse myself as well.
Recluse Posted February 10 Posted February 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, cfrag said: Ah, I found the issue (I believe): The spawner needs indeed the country attribute set to 2 (USA, blue) to be eligible for helotroops to show up in blue helicopters. The masterowner attribute merely controls the eligibility and of the spawner for helicopters, it does not control the owner of the spawner itself. NOTE THAT THIS IS IN STARK CONTRAST TO HOW CLONERS WORK (and, yes, that is bad API design, my apologies). The idea with spawners' master owner is that they can be made enabled depending on the ownership of a (faraway) zone. So, you did everything correctly, and probably confused a spawner's masterOwner mechanics with the identically named, but very different cloner's masterOwner mechanics. Don't worry, I confuse myself as well. OK, thanks! I learned something for sure. Will use the proper Country attribute. Might just use CLONER instead of SPAWNER, though. Now will have to make sure the FARP ownership changes correctly, but as there are no Red Clients for my purposes, I won't need to worry about Red helos picking up troops. Ahh... I guess these points WERE covered in the documentation: So much M to RTF!! Quote NOTE: Clone zone’s ‘masterOwner’ behavior is markedly different from how masterOwner works in spawnZones. There it is used to suppress automatic spawning. In cloneZones, this attribute controls the spawning faction instead. Caution is advised. Quote masterOwner A string that references another ME Zone by name. It must match that Zone’s name. A spawner only spawns automatically when the masterOwner’s owning faction is the same as the spawner’s country affiliation. On the map, the spawner does not have to be inside the masterOwner’s zone, it can be hundreds of miles away. You can use this to start spawning reinforcements in a completely unrelated part of the map when units conquer the masterOwner zone. If no masterOwner is specified, the Spawner spawns as directed and disregards any surrounding zones that happen to be owned Edited February 10 by Recluse
DD_Friar Posted February 10 Posted February 10 @Recluse if you use the cloner rather than spawner you will not be able to give your troops any orders so that they can attack other red zones. Visit the Dangerdogz at www.dangerdogz.com. We are a group based on having fun (no command structure, no expectations of attendance, no formal skills required, that is not to say we can not get serious for special events, of which we have many). We play DCS and IL2 GBS. We have two groups one based in North America / Canada and one UK / Europe. Come check us out.
Recluse Posted February 10 Posted February 10 3 minutes ago, DD_Friar said: @Recluse if you use the cloner rather than spawner you will not be able to give your troops any orders so that they can attack other red zones. I'm not really interested in that option. Only reason I have for it is to spawn troops for helos to transport to capture zones that have been neutralized. Unless I can use OwnedZone functionality with a FARP to use a HeloCap or other option that doesn't even require dropping troops.
mech79 Posted February 11 Posted February 11 I do not see one, so I will ask. Do you have a sling module or cargo module where the Helos can sling lift a vehicle? I know it cant actually be done visually, but I know some servers have a sling system that simulates the load by adding weight to the helos then when they get where they are going they hover x amount off the ground and disconnect the load. The vehicle spawns below the helo.
cfrag Posted February 11 Author Posted February 11 4 hours ago, mech79 said: Do you have a sling module or cargo module where the Helos can sling lift a vehicle? Yes and no. Helotroops can currently load anything "ground" into helicopters, but will disregard the weight. Therefore, HeloTroops checks the things on the ground that for their type, and currenlty restricts all units to infantry. This can be overridden. So: transport - yes. Realism or visual slinging - no.
DD_Friar Posted February 11 Posted February 11 @mech79 - also they can remain drivable when you deploy them thanks to @cfrags efforts. I use the soldier with the stinger as a JTAC. We take him from a base (usually with a Gazelle) and drop him off near where he needs to be. A player with Combined Arms can then "drive" him into a better position where they can then do the lazing or leave the unit and AI will take over and start putting up targets. I also have made the Humvee with TOE a legal "troop" and put it in the Chinook. That too can be deployed and then driven into position. Visit the Dangerdogz at www.dangerdogz.com. We are a group based on having fun (no command structure, no expectations of attendance, no formal skills required, that is not to say we can not get serious for special events, of which we have many). We play DCS and IL2 GBS. We have two groups one based in North America / Canada and one UK / Europe. Come check us out.
Recluse Posted February 11 Posted February 11 (edited) Sorry for more questions.... - Is there a way for a FARPZone to report EMPTY? It seems that a zone doesn't go NEUTRAL even when all units of a particular faction are destroyed, but only changes state when new units move in from an opposing faction. Is there an easy way to alert players that the zone is now ripe for capture?? For sure I can see using one of the built in DCS triggers, or maybe overlaying a UNIT ZONE, but was hoping for an easier way that is maybe integrated within a FARPZone. - In a similar vein, can a FARPZone itself report out a capture or ownership change event? I could use baseCaptured or another function for this, but wondering if the FARPZone has more attributes than are fully documented in the ME Integration section. Edited February 11 by Recluse
DD_Friar Posted February 11 Posted February 11 @Recluse I am using an invisible farp with an ownedZone overlayed in my campaign. Visit the Dangerdogz at www.dangerdogz.com. We are a group based on having fun (no command structure, no expectations of attendance, no formal skills required, that is not to say we can not get serious for special events, of which we have many). We play DCS and IL2 GBS. We have two groups one based in North America / Canada and one UK / Europe. Come check us out.
Recluse Posted February 11 Posted February 11 18 minutes ago, DD_Friar said: @Recluse I am using an invisible farp with an ownedZone overlayed in my campaign. Thinking of going in that direction and using Cloners to populate Defenders and Resources....
cfrag Posted February 11 Author Posted February 11 (edited) 1 hour ago, Recluse said: Is there a way for a FARPZone to report EMPTY? That could be possible, and it would incur a performance hit, much like owned zones will (they each need to check against all units in the mission if they are inside, and check that once every second or whatever you set ups to). That is the reason that I did not do this for FARPs, as they have their own event when they are captured, and I can conveniently (with no performance hit) tap into that. 1 hour ago, Recluse said: In a similar vein, can a FARPZone itself report out a capture or ownership change event? That should be possible, and I don't understand why I haven't done this yet Maybe I can can shoehorn that into the next update (scheduled for Thursday) Edited February 11 by cfrag
DD_Friar Posted February 11 Posted February 11 (edited) @cfrag Persistence Bug? Module: cloneZone Sir, forgive me if I am incorrect but I understood that the cloner was compatible with persistence? In my mission I am finding this is not the case. Units that were generated via clone and killed are coming back when the mission is re-loaded for the next session. When I reload the mission scores are correct from the previous mission (as a quick test I am using a player driven tank to kill some trucks so can confirm the CA scoring works as required) so I assume the data is being saved and reloaded ok? nullPlease may I ask if you had a couple of minutes spare to check my mission out. There are no mods and I have made it easy to test, I think you do have Combined Arms? (see below) I changed my ground units logic over from the convoy module to clones so this is common to all my units. many thanks in advance Syria Campaign V7.miz Edited February 11 by DD_Friar Visit the Dangerdogz at www.dangerdogz.com. We are a group based on having fun (no command structure, no expectations of attendance, no formal skills required, that is not to say we can not get serious for special events, of which we have many). We play DCS and IL2 GBS. We have two groups one based in North America / Canada and one UK / Europe. Come check us out.
Recluse Posted February 11 Posted February 11 (edited) 32 minutes ago, cfrag said: That could be possible, and it would incur a performance hit, much like owned zones will (they each need to check against all units in the mission if they are inside, and check that once every second or whatever you set ups to). That is the reason that I did not do this for FARPs, as they have their own event when they are captured, and I can conveniently (with no performance hit) tap into that. That should be possible, and I don't understand why I haven't done this yet Maybe I can can shoehorn that into the next update (scheduled for Thursday) LOL... I just actually TRIED it instead of "thinking about it" and I believe you already have done it behind the scenes! I got the latter two messages automatically. The First Message (FARP IS CLEAR) I got using a Unit Zone with exitZONE! sent to Messenger. Of course adding a discrete output for use elsewhere might be a nice QOL upgrade!! null Edited February 11 by Recluse
cfrag Posted February 11 Author Posted February 11 1 hour ago, DD_Friar said: Sir, forgive me if I am incorrect but I understood that the cloner was compatible with persistence? They are. 1 hour ago, DD_Friar said: In my mission I am finding this is not the case. Units that were generated via clone and killed are coming back when the mission is re-loaded for the next session. I tried this with the mission that you kindly included and found that when I spawn the units, kill them (I conveniently placed a Leo close to them so I can pick them off once stared), save the mission and restart them, the trucks do NOT come back. Now, if you again choose "start ground units" from the menu, the radioMenu sends the "goMissionStart" command, which goes into the cloner's clone? input and it clones a new set of enemies. This is expected behavior, as cloners will always react to signals on their clone inputs. You can easily try this yourself by starting a mission fresh, start the ground units, kill them all, and then, without saving or restarting the mission, issue the "start ground mission" command again. New trucks appear. The issue isn't the cloner, the issue is that you aren't guarding against multiple ground mission starts. What you probably want is that the cloner remembers that it has spawned, by using the information encoded into the "goMissionStart" signal, and only clone when the underlying flag's signal is exactly 1. To do that, you'd set the triggerMethod to "=1" (this will prevent multiple starts in the same session) AND save the flag "goMissionStart" state with persistence via the "saveFlags" attribute (this prevents across saved missions). That way, persistence saves "goMissionStart"s state and loads it. To make this a bit simpler, I'll see if I can add a new 'maxClone' attribute (that is automatically persisted) that limits a cloner to n clone cycles. You could then set it to 1, and only one clone cycle is run on that cloner, no matter how many times you bang on the input.
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