DML - Mission Creation Toolbox [no Lua required]

[DD_Friar]

@Gunslinger52 I have downloaded the mission and taken a look.

Your use of "Linked Unit" is confusing me, I have never seen that before and don't think it is correct. I always use the field shown below

The "mine" logic works (again see below)

nullI think the issue is the "Spawner" - you can not use it for driveable units. I have used the cloner instead.null

Smoke on dead Hummer v6.miz

[cfrag]

3 hours ago, DD_Friar said:

you can not use it for driveable units.

... yet  -- it simply never occured to me to use a spawner that way, it's blindly obvious now -- I think that I can come up with reasonable patch within the next couple of days. 

[Chad Vader]

More chinook fun.

So, Im able to spawn crates on the ground and successfully drop them off by loading them into the cargo bay, and then dropping them off.

The first time I do this, the cargo receiver registers the crate being delivered fine.

THe second time, nothing happens

Is there anything you can do to help, script wise?

If not, im trying to use a standard CARGO UNHOOKED IN ZONE event to bridge the gap.  Does a flag just have to change for DML to recognise an input?  For example, if I set flag 999 to a random number when cargo is unhooked in zone, can I pass that to a ? attribute of a DML module?

Thanks.

Edited November 12, 2024 by Chad Vader

[Guest]

11 hours ago, cfrag said:

... yet  -- it simply never occured to me to use a spawner that way, it's blindly obvious now -- I think that I can come up with reasonable patch within the next couple of days. 

I would love that!  Thanks.

With the support I'm getting in this thread, I think anything is possible.  

15 hours ago, DD_Friar said:

@Gunslinger52 I have downloaded the mission and taken a look.

Your use of "Linked Unit" is confusing me, I have never seen that before and don't think it is correct. I always use the field shown below

The "mine" logic works (again see below)

nullI think the issue is the "Spawner" - you can not use it for driveable units. I have used the cloner instead.null

Smoke on dead Hummer v6.miz 294.79 kB · 1 download

Thank you sooo much.

All your help, along with cfrag is making this enjoyable, rather than sleepless nights!  

[DD_Friar]

11 hours ago, Chad Vader said:

More chinook fun.

So, Im able to spawn crates on the ground and successfully drop them off by loading them into the cargo bay, and then dropping them off.

The first time I do this, the cargo receiver registers the crate being delivered fine.

THe second time, nothing happens

hey @Chad Vader I have also just created a little cargo moving test mission using cargoManager and cargoReceiver for the first time so am interested in your post.

In my mission I have Hooks' and Hueys able to request a load via the radio menu. The hooks have the option of sling or internal. They then get the cargo and deliver it to a couple of receiver zones (either at dock side or on the rear deck of the MSV Tilde which is docked in port.)

When sling loading do you still have to use the default DCS cargo function (that sets of the smoke) ?

[Chad Vader]

3 hours ago, DD_Friar said:

hey @Chad Vader I have also just created a little cargo moving test mission using cargoManager and cargoReceiver for the first time so am interested in your post.

In my mission I have Hooks' and Hueys able to request a load via the radio menu. The hooks have the option of sling or internal. They then get the cargo and deliver it to a couple of receiver zones (either at dock side or on the rear deck of the MSV Tilde which is docked in port.)

When sling loading do you still have to use the default DCS cargo function (that sets of the smoke) ?

Hey, yes ive been using the f6 menu to get the smoke and sling load UI with ctrl shift P.

Is that not the way you are doing it?

In my mission I can deliver on piece of cargo to one zone ok, but when I try to deliver a second it doesnt register the cargo.

How are you checking the zone receives the supplies, with mine I just post a message to the screen that keeps track with a countdown how many supplies have been received.

So for each bang on cargoRecieved, I pass this into a countdown that eps track of how many cargo we have left to deliver.  The problem is this flag only seems to bang once and then never again since the introduction of the noBounce code

Edited November 13, 2024 by Chad Vader

[DD_Friar]

59 minutes ago, Chad Vader said:

Is that not the way you are doing it?

Yes, I am using the standard DCS sling load routines. I have just added DML to generate the cargo units and the cargoReceiver to control a zone where they are being unloaded to. I too have a messenger waiting for the bang on the cargo received flag, but have yet to achieve that (may be due to my sling loading skills, although I thought I had it nailed the other night without success  )

 

[Chad Vader]

12 minutes ago, DD_Friar said:

Yes, I am using the standard DCS sling load routines. I have just added DML to generate the cargo units and the cargoReceiver to control a zone where they are being unloaded to. I too have a messenger waiting for the bang on the cargo received flag, but have yet to achieve that (may be due to my sling loading skills, although I thought I had it nailed the other night without success  )

 

If you could test loading one piece of cargo then dropping it off and seeing the bang, then repeating the process with the same aircraft that would be appreciated

[DD_Friar]

19 minutes ago, Chad Vader said:

If you could test loading one piece of cargo then dropping it off and seeing the bang, then repeating the process with the same aircraft that would be appreciated

Ok, I will have a go later this evening.

[Chad Vader]

Thanks!

Im pretty sure at this point that the flag that bangs the second piece of cargo after the noBounce code runs may be the issue here.

You can see that the zone is still seeing the cargo when its silent attribute is set to false, but the flag is not being banged with a new piece of cargo from the same spawner.

If I turn noBounce off, the flag bangs fine.

Im not really au fait with lua but if I look at the code:

    -- save the names of cargos delivered to prevent 'bounce'
    aZone.cargosDelivered = {} -- by cargo name 
    aZone.noBounce = aZone:getBoolFromZoneProperty("noBounce", true)
    if aZone:hasProperty("cargoReceiver!") then 
        aZone.outReceiveFlag = aZone:getStringFromZoneProperty("cargoReceiver!", "*<none>")
    elseif aZone:hasProperty("f!") then 
        aZone.outReceiveFlag = aZone:getStringFromZoneProperty("f!", "*<none>")
    elseif aZone:hasProperty("cargoReceived!") then 
        aZone.outReceiveFlag = aZone:getStringFromZoneProperty( "cargoReceived!", "*<none>")
    end

The line in bold states: aZone.outReceiveFlag = aZone:getStringFromZoneProperty("cargoReceiver!", "*<none>")

But the zone doesnt contain that property it contains cargoReceiver without a ! or cargoReceived!

Not sure if this makes any difference, but it was one thing that stood out.

As it stands, the zone works if I remove the noBounce property, but I would obviously prefer that to work.

It would also be great if the zone was able to detect multiple pieces of cargo in the chinooks hold and bang the flag multiple times if more than one piece of cargo is present.  But that's ofc a nice to have.

As stated before I tried to use CARGO UNOOKED IN ZONE but DML doesnt seem to want to notice the standard flag change if I feed it into the counter.

Another annoying issue is when I spawn cargo using the object spawner, it floats off the ground

Edited November 13, 2024 by Chad Vader

[cfrag]

16 hours ago, Chad Vader said:

So, Im able to spawn crates on the ground and successfully drop them off by loading them into the cargo bay, and then dropping them off.

The first time I do this, the cargo receiver registers the crate being delivered fine.

THe second time, nothing happens

Ah, huzzah, the cargo API. It seems to work very different from sling-loading, and I'll (against my better instincts) try and have a look at it.

Just out of curiosity, what are your steps to load cargo into (i.e. NOT slinging) the Hook? Rearm/refuel, then the cargo abomination to get get that cargo into the chopper, fly to receiver, and use the abominable interface to push it onto the tarmac into the receiver, correct?

When you say 'second time', what do you mean exactly? Do you load two pieces of cargo in a single go, and unload two in one go, or do you load, deliver, return, load, deliver?

Maybe I can work something out...

[Chad Vader]

29 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Ah, huzzah, the cargo API. It seems to work very different from sling-loading, and I'll (against my better instincts) try and have a look at it.

Just out of curiosity, what are your steps to load cargo into (i.e. NOT slinging) the Hook? Rearm/refuel, then the cargo abomination to get get that cargo into the chopper, fly to receiver, and use the abominable interface to push it onto the tarmac into the receiver, correct?

When you say 'second time', what do you mean exactly? Do you load two pieces of cargo in a single go, and unload two in one go, or do you load, deliver, return, load, deliver?

Maybe I can work something out...

Hi CFrag thanks  v much for looking into this.

My second response above has more detail but basically the same thing happens if I use slong or cargo UI.

For sling, I drop cargo off once, go get another one then the second one doesnt bang the F! flag.

For cargo, I use the abomination of an interface yes lol and load with X number of cargo (it doesnt matter the zone only registers 1 even if I have 4) then I land in the zone with the cargo in the hold.  The first time, I get 1 bang on f!, the second time, nothing.

I believe the problem may be with the new noBounce method

Id like to be able to drop multiple off at once

Edited November 13, 2024 by Chad Vader

[Chad Vader]

BTW My solution to this using a standard flag which does work with pre spawned cargo is to make a once action for cargo in zone for each piece of cargo.

The difference between your zone and the ME action is that your zone detects the cargo on the ground in the hold or on the line, which isnt ideal, whereas the ME trigger detects the cargo when the line is released or unloaded, which is preferred. 

[cfrag]

17 hours ago, Chad Vader said:

Does a flag just have to change for DML to recognise an input?  For example, if I set flag 999 to a random number when cargo is unhooked in zone, can I pass that to a ? attribute of a DML module?

Yes. Except that there is a 1/999 chance that the new value is the same as before (in DCS, that's basically certain to fail in the worst possible moment), and no change registers for that reason. It would be better if you used the 'increment flag" action, which is guaranteed every time to be recognized as a change in value.

Edited November 13, 2024 by cfrag

[cfrag]

11 hours ago, Gunslinger52 said:

I would love that!

Here you go. The new attribute for the spawner is named "drivable" and if you set it to true (default is false), any spawned vehicle is drivable if Combined Arms supports it. 

Below please find the modified scripts that will be part of the next DML release, and a demo miz. Only the vehicle spawned by "my ride" can be commanded

 

spawnZones.lua cfxZones.lua catch a ride.miz

[cfrag]

1 hour ago, Chad Vader said:

your zone detects the cargo on the ground in the hold or on the line,

With the new cargo system, I have no idea where and how the hook's cargo is detected (when not sling loading). The ME trigger detection is superior, but does not work for cargo that is spawned, meaning that all cargo that a ME trigger rule can handle must be placed with ME. 

Can you PM me (or post here) a brief demo cargo mission that forces the issue for you so I can investigate?

 

[Chad Vader]

1 hour ago, cfrag said:

With the new cargo system, I have no idea where and how the hook's cargo is detected (when not sling loading). The ME trigger detection is superior, but does not work for cargo that is spawned, meaning that all cargo that a ME trigger rule can handle must be placed with ME. 

Can you PM me (or post here) a brief demo cargo mission that forces the issue for you so I can investigate?

 

I will certainly work on that and get back to you

[Chad Vader]

Hi, am still working on providing a robust mission to demonstrate the ideas for improving cargo receiver.

I have another question with regards to helotroops and orders w/clone zones.

Can you user the orders parameter with cloneZones as they seem much easier to use than spawnZones as im never sure what unitnames to put in the spawnZone.  Its much more user friendly I guess to just put the units in a spawn zone from the ME.

If I look in the spawnZones part of the manual, it seems that the wrong info is in there, just general info about zones.

At the moment I have a clone zone with a requestable attribute, but when I offload the troops I dont want them to guard.  How do i give them orders please?  

With spawn zones, it seems you cant have mixed groups, so for example a group of 4 m4 and 2 rpg.

Thanks.

Edited November 14, 2024 by Chad Vader

[cfrag]

5 minutes ago, Chad Vader said:

Can you user the orders parameter with cloneZones

Unfortunately, no. The reason on simple, and trace back to the way that DCS handles units. Spawners simply create new groups, based on the types that you define. These groups have no relationship with anything you, the mission designer, places in Mission Editor, and thus they have nothing to do after they spawn. Since they have nothing to do, you can tell a spawner how the spawned units should spend time: guard, lase, seek out owned zones. A separate script, GroundCommander, then keeps those units busy.

A cloner, on the other hand, takes an existing group (i.e. one that you placed with Mission Editor), creates a copy from that group (uses the original group as a template), and puts that copy (clone) into the world. Since the group was placed with ME, it comes with routes, waypoints, actions and whatnot, they can have a lot to do. So clones aren't handed over to GroundCommander to keep them busy, they already have orders to follow (a copy of whatever you gave the original group in ME).

12 minutes ago, Chad Vader said:

im never sure what unitnames to put in the spawnZone

Just don't give them any and leave out the attribute. Cloner will take care of the rest, basing the name on the zone name, ensuring no naming conflict will ever arise. I can do a lot more, but it's usually not required. Use defaults as much as you can.

33 minutes ago, Chad Vader said:

If I look in the spawnZones part of the manual, it seems that the wrong info is in there, just general info about zones.

That is entirely possible, it's from the earliest stages of DML, written years ago

 

[Chad Vader]

34 minutes ago, cfrag said:

Unfortunately, no. The reason on simple, and trace back to the way that DCS handles units. Spawners simply create new groups, based on the types that you define. These groups have no relationship with anything you, the mission designer, places in Mission Editor, and thus they have nothing to do after they spawn. Since they have nothing to do, you can tell a spawner how the spawned units should spend time: guard, lase, seek out owned zones. A separate script, GroundCommander, then keeps those units busy.

A cloner, on the other hand, takes an existing group (i.e. one that you placed with Mission Editor), creates a copy from that group (uses the original group as a template), and puts that copy (clone) into the world. Since the group was placed with ME, it comes with routes, waypoints, actions and whatnot, they can have a lot to do. So clones aren't handed over to GroundCommander to keep them busy, they already have orders to follow (a copy of whatever you gave the original group in ME).

Just don't give them any and leave out the attribute. Cloner will take care of the rest, basing the name on the zone name, ensuring no naming conflict will ever arise. I can do a lot more, but it's usually not required. Use defaults as much as you can.

That is entirely possible, it's from the earliest stages of DML, written years ago

 

Hm, let me give you an example of what im trying to do.

Here is my spawn zone:

nullI want to:

Spawn a group of ground infantry (mixed m4/rpg) for helo to be able to pick them up.

Once I drop them off they are to attack the named zone.

IM happy to do that with a clone zone, but they want to carry out their orders immediately once spawned, rather than waiting to be dropped off.

So trying to use the spawnZone, but its actually spawning anything.nullnull

 

 

Edited November 14, 2024 by Chad Vader

[cfrag]

15 minutes ago, Chad Vader said:

for helo to be able to pick them up.

That decides the issue  -- if a helo picks up troops, they 'forget' anything that was ordered with ME. When they disembark from a helicopter, heloTroops hands them off to groundCommander. A Spawner's orders can make the transition, a cloner's can't. So if you want the 'attackZones' order to survive the troops being picked up and then deployed, a spawner is your only option. 

18 minutes ago, Chad Vader said:

they want to carry out their orders immediately once spawned

Have you tried the "WAIT-" prefix?

[Chad Vader]

OK, I hadnt loaded the script in the ME! Doh!

I notice that you can only seem to drop troops off in a designated spawnzone?  Is this intended?  I ferry the troops in my helo to the place I want to drop them off but I dont get any disembark options in my f10 menu.

EDIT: I was missing dependencies.  Its ok now.

Edited November 14, 2024 by Chad Vader

[cfrag]

6 minutes ago, Chad Vader said:

I notice that you can only seem to drop troops off in a designated spawnzone? 

You now can optionally restrict drop-off to designated dropZones (for heloTroops). It has to be turned on, though. It's intended to facilitate some mission times that are now trivial to implement. 

To enable that, heloTroops' config zone must be set to enforceDropZones = true. 

Now, it's possible that DCS's menu manager doesn't correctly update the menus after you pick up troops and then land (it apparently caches the old menu). If that happens, go up all the levels, then exit menu, then call it up again, and the disembark option should be there

 

[Chad Vader]

7 minutes ago, cfrag said:

You now can optionally restrict drop-off to designated dropZones (for heloTroops). It has to be turned on, though. It's intended to facilitate some mission times that are now trivial to implement. 

To enable that, heloTroops' config zone must be set to enforceDropZones = true. 

Now, it's possible that DCS's menu manager doesn't correctly update the menus after you pick up troops and then land (it apparently caches the old menu). If that happens, go up all the levels, then exit menu, then call it up again, and the disembark option should be there

 

Thanks for the reply.  It does seem like the behaviour is quite buggy.  Sometimes I pick troops up and am able to ferry them, other times i pick them up and when I land the option to disembark them is not there at all. This seems to tie in with once I leave the spawnzone.

[cfrag]

13 minutes ago, Chad Vader said:

This seems to tie in with once I leave the spawnzone.

Unless you enable the 'dropZone only' feature, it merely seems that way. If you turn on auto-drop-off and auto-pick-up, you'll see that the relevant code is invoked, it's DCS's menu caching that hates you. I see if I can rework the code to force menu generation, but it will be crude...

Edited November 14, 2024 by cfrag