1 Failed Engine Start Procedures?

[Madmatt_BFC]

I have been doing a lot of training lately with the proper startup procedures and with the use of the various checklists and tutorials available I now have it down pretty well.

 

What I am trying to work on now though are the engine restart procedures but I am having some trouble. Some of this is because I want to know how to do this, and sometimes because I have made a mistake in my normal startup-checklist and end up with one engine running and one that simply won't do anything.

 

I read through the procedures to perform the "Crank Start" steps but I can't tell if I am doing them correctly and could use some guidance.

 

The situation I seem to encounter is that I will have one engine work fine but the other engine, after an aborted stop, will simply no longer "kick over".

 

So, lets assume I have one engine *hot* and running fine, but another engine didn't start up fully. APU is still on as well.

 

In this situation, what should I do? The manual talks about having to wait until an engine properly shuts down from an aborted/failed start and cools off. How do I determine that? Also, in the section about performing a crank start it says to re-enagage the rotor brake, but is that safe to do with one engine already up to speed and the rotors moving?

 

I have had this problem several times where my Left Engine began to start and usually due to some mistake on my part, shut itself down. The Right engine however fires up fine. From that point on, when I try to restart the Left Engine, all I get is the Start Valve indicator lighting up for a few moments and then turning off. The engine RPM guage for engine 1 (Left Engine) doesn't budge at all no matter what I do and the Ekran seems to repeat errors about the Oil pressure in the Left Engine and the guage seems to report extremely low (0 even?) pressure as well.

 

I would assume, perhaps incorrectly, that because the Left Engine began to run but then shut down, that I need to do a crank start to purge the fuel from the system and then try and restart it. If so, what is the proper procedure to do that, because when I tried to do it as the manual stated, it hasn't worked.

 

Any help is appreciated.

 

Madmatt

[fragal]

sounds to me like your trying to start the right engine before the left has finished spooling.

 

keep an eye on ur engine rpm, when the rpm needle hits 70% your usually safe to start the right engine. Or just under the engine selector there's a green light marked "START VLV" it lights up when you start the engine or apu, if you flick this over before it goes out, then the other engine will start to crank. so either wait for the engine to fully spool up or wait for the light to go out before hitting the RH engine.

Edited December 18, 2008 by fragal

[AlphaOneSix]

when the rpm needle hits 7000

 

The RPM needle only goes to 100. :D

 

In other words, the gauge is labeled in %x10 not RPMx1000.

 

But anyway, there is the point of moving the selector back to the proper engine. Other than that, you can try crank/false start, but the engine RPM will still come up as the engine spins (should be around 20%-25% I think).

 

Maybe you're breaking the starter shaft. :doh:

[fragal]

lol my bad, only had a screeny to go by when i was checking- corrected :p

[Madmatt_BFC]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies so far but they assume that I want an answer to PREVENT this from occuring in the first place. That's not it at all though.

 

I know how to properly start the engines fine and can do so reliably. What I was hoping to get was a procedure to do AFTER there was a unintentioned screwup of some kind.

 

So, in my situation, the Right Engine is now running at full RPM's and the engine selector has been reset to the Left Engine, but it still won't fire up again (it began to run earlier but lost power and shut down). In this case, what are my next steps to try and get it to start? Do i need to do a Crank Start and if so, what about the need to have the Rotor Brake Engaged? Do I need to properly shut down the right engine and basically start all over? When I have done that before, the left engine would refuse to start no matter what I did, but I could get the right engine to fire up every time.

 

Remember, in my situation, the Left Engine RMP guage will not budge at all when the engine was attempted to be restarted aftaer the intial failed/aborted start (the Start VLV light comes on though). What would that seem to indicate?

 

Also, If I did actually break the starter shaft, how would I know this since I see no warning lamps lit.

 

Madmatt

Edited December 18, 2008 by Madmatt_BFC

[fragal]

Well 2 options really, you've either snapped the shaft like alpha said in which case just shut down and wait 3 mins to repair, or b) wait until the engine is completely shut down all gauges have stopped moving then attempt to restart or third option new whirlybird and try again.

 

Forget about the rotor brake if you have one engine started thats fine.

 

As for a warning you will actually see depending on how far into the startup you are (e.g ekran systems turned on) a warning message of some sort generally about transmission .

[Madmatt_BFC]

Does that 3 minute repair function occur automatically or do I need to establish comms with the ground crew first?

 

I have seen some EKRAN errors indicating problems about the Transmission or Oil Pressure to the Left Engine, so perhaps that was what was happening (Starter shaft fault).

 

As I said, I can pretty much get everything working fine under normal conditions, but this being real life, sometimes something inadverently occurs (cat jumping on the keyboard hitting random keys, dropping my HOTAS on the floor etc..) and I was looking for steps to do to try and get that failed engine to fire back up.

 

So let me ask this then, under what conditions, in game, would I ever want to perform a Crank Start? Is that ever really needed?

 

Madmatt

[fragal]

3 minute repair is automatic, just have engines shut off, all systems will reset once its complete e.g completely cold nothing turned on.

 

completely understandable about real life, sometimes it's better to just give it another try with a fresh bird so you know it's not you.

[Madmatt_BFC]

So, the 3 minute repair function, will it also fix battle damage?

 

 

Madmatt

[fragal]

yes

[bratwurst]

Hey MadMatt,

 

Congratulations on the "Marines" release. CMx2 is shaping up nicely :thumbup:

 

Good luck with the start-up procedure. I'm having enough trouble getting along with the weapon systems. Boy am I glad I never have to fly one of these into combat IRL :megalol:

[AlphaOneSix]

Remember, in my situation, the Left Engine RMP guage will not budge at all when the engine was attempted to be restarted aftaer the intial failed/aborted start (the Start VLV light comes on though). What would that seem to indicate?

 

A broken starter. :D To be fair, I was half-kidding and I don't know if this is modelled and even if it is, what the chances are of it happening.

 

Also, If I did actually break the starter shaft, how would I know this since I see no warning lamps lit.

 

You would get a starter light but no engine rpm indication. The starter light comes on when air pressure builds up in the starter, meaning that air is going through the starter. If the starter is working properly, then your engine must begin turning at this point, and you will see it on the rpm gauge. So if you get a start valve light, but no engine rpm movement, I would say it has to be a problem with the starter.

 

Anyway, I would say don't waste your time with a crank or false start. If the engine wont spin, then a crank or false start won't work, either.

 

If you could reproduce this, please do so, and then quit and save a track file and post it here so we can see what is happening.

[RedTiger]

Hey! Welcome Madmatt! I haven't see you around a forum for ages. I used to participate on the BFC forums years ago, when CMBO first came out. Awesome to have you here!!! :)

[Madmatt_BFC]

Hey guys, thanks for the kind words. I am still around as much as ever, but I try to take a much lower profile when I am on somone elses board. DCS Black Shark is the game I turn to when I need a *break* from working on all of our in-house stuff! Well, this and the newly released Jutland. ;)

 

AlphaOneSix, I got this situation I mentioned before to occur about half a dozen times last night so I will try and get a track of it again today. Probably never happen again now that I am TRYING to get it to replicate though. ;)

 

Madmatt

[tusler]

Just my 2 cents, but I think aborted starts require like real life procedures.

1. Let the engine completely spool down, verifying by the RPM gauge.

2. Put switch in crank/false start so engine spins on starter without fuel introduction, this will rid the combustion section of any excess fuel to prevent a hot start. manually abort the starter engagement within proper time IAW manual and allow the Eng to spool down again.

3. Move the crank switch to start position and repeat the correct start procedure.

[Weta43]

I've re-started after a number of bad starts & pretty much what tusler said:

It always re-starts & seems to run OK afterwards..

From memory (at work)

I stop the engine that failed start, turn off the fuel, & wait for it to spool down. set to failed start crank & crank, stop, wait to spool down, set to start, crank & open fuel at appropriate point...