Trim and Rotor Intersection

[Ginsu]

So I've got about 20 hours logged in now (just getting comfortable) and I've had the sudden "I'm now a brick" moment quite a few times due to intersection of the blades - at least a few times it's happened when I've been yanking around on the controls at high airspeeds with severe bank angles or inputting too much rudder.

 

However, I've noticed that I have had consistent problems with blades intersecting when *setting* the trim. I have the X52 so after I trim I center the controls. When I do, there's a second or two of exaggerated yaw (or pitch, depending on the trim configuration) and that's when, if the conditions are right, I 'cross the streams' as it were and begin my rapid descent to oblivion.

 

Has anyone else noticed this or had a problem with it? My main concern is that I'm scared to trim now for fear that the sudden yaw will render my bird a lawn dart.

 

*sigh* Perhaps I just need a few hundred more hours in the pit.

 

Ginsu

 

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Edited January 19, 2009 by Ginsu

[LupinYonder]

Have you checked your rudder's trimmed position using Ctl enter ? you cant get into a point where you trim too much right rudder again and again. I have problems with trim and rudder too sometimes.

 

The trim function to me often feels a little different each time, sometimes im stable, flying in a strait line and all is well, sometimes i just cant get the bird balanced!

[GGTharos]

Do not reset trim; there is no 'reset trim' button on the real ka-50 - it is provided here for your convenience; learn to use it in an absolute emergency only rather than making routine use of it. You should 're-set trim' by actually trimming back to neutral ;)

[Ginsu]

EDIT to original POST

 

'when SETTING the trim'

 

Not resetting (ctl T) but actually trimming it out.

 

sorry for the confusion

[GGTharos]

I am guessing you must be flying already in a blade collision part of the envelope, and you might be holding the stick a little too long after you set the trim, thus causing a lethal bob-up to happen.

 

Post a track, that will help.

[Nate--IRL--]

I find this happens most often when I press and hold the trim button move to the desired position and release, smash! I will always move to where I want, tap the trim and re centre quickly (i believe you have .5 of second to re centre)

 

Nate

[Frederf]

Trimming with a spring-centered joystick is rather dangerous in Blackshark since once you press the trim (or trim reset) button that there's a risk of a very abrupt simulated control input.

 

It's best to trim in small deflection stages especially at the high risk flight regimes and avoid trim reset if possible. That way if you don't return to neutral right away you only get a small jump in input.

[LupinYonder]

I press and hold the trim button move to the desired position and release, smash!

Nate

 

When trimming, do not hold down the trim button while moving the stick, just move the stick to the required position to keep the aircraft stable and heading in the right direction, then just simple click trim and strait away let your RL joystick centre itself ( yes this does have to be done quick ).

 

With a little practice i have been able to trim the aircraft with only the smallest wobble.

 

One last thing, sometimes one trim wont do, balance the chopper - trim - rebalance and trim again. I often find after the first trim to a new heading i will then have to check my trimmed rudder position using CTL enter and trim out any rudder inputs.

 

Is this helpful or am i doing it wrong too ;-)

[815TooCooL]

When trimming, do not hold down the trim button while moving the stick, just move the stick to the required position to keep the aircraft stable and heading in the right direction, then just simple click trim and strait away let your RL joystick centre itself ( yes this does have to be done quick ).

No, I think that's wrong.

As Nate wrote, keep pressed for some maneuver, and release it when it feels right.

So, in most maneuver situation, you hold down your trim button and relase it when it's ok to keep the attitude.

That's how I learned from here and it could be different since I use MSFFB2 which stay at the position at trim release.

I really hope some good FFB rudder but that's what we would never get.

[Ginsu]

Well, after playing around with it, I have found that I was holding the cyclic/rudder inputs in just a millisecond too long after trimming and that was causing the helicopter to have a case of the 'yips'.

 

Now I just have to pretend that the trim button simultaneously electrifies the controls and try to let go instantly. If I'm quick enough, though, I don't notice any wobble, so that seems to be the problem - THANKS for the help. Just glad to know I wasn't the only one.

[LupinYonder]

No, I think that's wrong.

As Nate wrote, keep pressed for some maneuver, and release it when it feels right.

So, in most maneuver situation, you hold down your trim button and relase it when it's ok to keep the attitude.

That's how I learned from here and it could be different since I use MSFFB2 which stay at the position at trim release.

I really hope some good FFB rudder but that's what we would never get.

 

As i understood it, pressing the trim button basically tells the chopper to keep the stick in the position it is currently in ( that + all the maintain heading and current altitude auto modes ). Thats why when i trim i balance the chopper ( at this point my RL joystick may well be held at a funny angle to keep balance and heading ) and then by trimming, tell the chopper to keep the same inputs that i'm doing.

 

When holding down the trim button does this not override all pilot aides ?

[Frederf]

You know a more sophisticated trim system in Black Shark that gently and gradually applied the trim-set cyclic pressure would be nice. I have a feeling it's instantaneous which cannot be true in the real thing.

[jakeman]

In the real thing the cyclic stick wont kick back to its original position and therefore it wont feel so sudden. The stick will just hold its position as you trim. If I have understood it right.

[beers]

if you say you shouldn't use the trim-reset, then you don't understand what trim does in a helo. a self-centering stick is nothing close to appropriate when representing how trim works. Trim-reset is completely necessary in that my stick (and yours too probably) will not give you any indication of where the trim has it, where you can SEE and FEEL where the stick is pointing in the condition of trim in a real helo. (yes yes, you can see it with ctrl-ent but you cannot feel it.)

 

if you trim, trim, trim, trim, trim, then the stick is so far away from center that you have no idea where you are pointing (particularly if you have AP on). I trim and trim here and there, but when I want to stop and hover, I reset. boom, i am slowing down, coming to a nice hover and everything is peaceful (except for the battlefield)

[Frederf]

In the real thing the cyclic stick wont kick back to its original position and therefore it wont feel so sudden. The stick will just hold its position as you trim. If I have understood it right.

 

I know that a real helo stick doesn't actually reset to center but the "trim away pressure" would happen not all at once but somewhat gradually.

[msalama]

I know that a real helo stick doesn't actually reset to center but the "trim away pressure" would happen not all at once but somewhat gradually.

 

Open C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\Ka-50\Scripts\Aircrafts\Ka-50\FMOptions.lua and find the following line:

 

TrimmerTauInverse = 7.0 --lower value - decrease trim speed after trim button release. For personal tuning on flying style. (Has an influence on tracks)

 

Back up the file, change TrimmerTauInverse to a lower value and report back please ;)

[Frederf]

Wow, I assumed that the trim was an "instant" jump but it looks like they model a "soft" onset of trim. I wonder what setting produces a .75 second duration trim event.

[msalama]

No clue whatsoever :noexpression: Maybe someone from ED would be so kind as to inform us mere mortals on this?