Tactics question/discussion

[Gorn557]

Hello everyone:

As a player of Longbow and Longbow 2 from the before times, I've been eagerly awaiting a chance to sink my teeth into this, and have finally been able to over the last few weeks. I think I'm now at a point where I can (arguably) operate the helicopter (and having a total blast by the way- quality is astounding), and I'm starting to try to learn how to really employ it correctly. 

I understand the perfect theoretical application of the Apache, where you're in some hilly forested terrain and can bob up just a few feet above the trees to pop off a Hellfire from 9 km away, and then disappear again. Of course, real life often conspires to make everything more difficult! Let me give you two examples of where this tactic isn't really usable, both from IA missions included with the module, and pose the question of how it should ideally be approached:

1) The Instant Action SCUD Busters mission: here, the targets are hidden in bunkers and behind trees as seen from a distance. If you fly close enough to see them, you'll get torn up by small arms fire. As far as I can tell, there would be two possible ways to approach this situation: a) at maximum range, go up to a few thousand feet to get LOS to the targets while remaining out of range of the small arms, while maybe keeping an eye on the ASE, but this would seem to expose you to manpads; b) fly over the target at very high speed, but then you both are exposed to small arms and will have a difficult time popping off a Hellfire due to the small ToT with LOS. 

2) The Instant Action Red Flag mission. Here, the issue is that there's really no cover. You can hide behind the mountains to the west, but if you pop out for even an instant you're exposed to SA-11s. The only thing I can figure out here is to just go to absolute maximum Hellfire range, launch them, go back to the FARP, rearm, repeat. 

Thoughts from more experienced pilots than me? Am I thinking about this right? Am I missing other tactical options?

Edited January 29, 2023 by Gorn557
Grammar

[NeedzWD40]

I haven't played these outside of the Red Flag mission where I just hugged the ground until within weapons range, if it's the one I'm thinking of. What I'd do would be to leverage indirect fires, especially in the first scenario. If you already know where the target is, use the CAQ function, put the target coordinates in manually, or generate a target point with TADS. Find a point on the terrain within 4-5km, hunker down, fire some rockets at the target area. Bob up or move and assess from there to determine if further rounds are required. M433 fuzed M151 or M229s would probably be ideal, allowing you to clear out infantry and/or MANPADS. Cannon can also be used, though you will have to get within 2900 meters because the rounds still magically disappear after that distance.

For the second scenario, I hugged some mountains and then stuck the nose out over a peak to assess, found the target, and engaged with missiles. You want to stay low enough that your CPG is having to get out and open gates for you.

[NeedzWD40]

I took the time to play SCUD Busters and I can only say this one is really quite broken. My first go around, my flight members did weird behavior and basically drove into one another on the field, leaving me to go by myself. The F-16s never started and so I ended up taking down the SA-6 myself with cannon, then I edged closer to the base and knocked out a BRDM. I weaved through it and noticed nothing was shooting at me. Alright, broken.

Second go around, my #4 wouldn't take off and my #2 and #3 collided with one another on the way to the target. The F-16s started up this time and properly HARM'd their targets, so I set up at the battle point and edged a bit closer for a rocket attack. This took care of most of the infantry threats, but I was PK'd by a BRDM as I poked around the base.

The final try I actually got all of my flight members to the target area and rather than setting up at the indicated point, set up west of the target. I took 3 pods of M433 fuzed M151s and saturated the target area, then tasked my flight members with hitting the various vehicles lined up via the cover me command. I used AGM-114 to hit a couple of prominent infantry points, then used the remainder to hit a BMP and a BRDM. Closing in, I finished off two more BRDMs with the cannon, then clean sweep'd most of the SCUDs as my flight was lobbing missiles.

This one would probably be easier if you could get the AI to make a beaten zone with their rockets, but the AI only practices direct fire with rockets so their utility is limited. It was also a chore to micromanage them as they tended to bounce around en route, causing near-collisions with one another (as well as hitting the ground constantly).

[placsea]

I've never had a good experience with instant action missions. Download Apache hunting grounds from the DCS user files area, it's fantastic and has multiple areas with varying challenge. 

[Gorn557]

21 hours ago, placsea said:

I've never had a good experience with instant action missions. Download Apache hunting grounds from the DCS user files area, it's fantastic and has multiple areas with varying challenge. 

That's fine but it's a more general question about tactics. 

[Floyd1212]

Not that it helps you much to complete those missions you mention above, but this is where buddy lasing can be very helpful.  A drone in the sky, or JTAC on the ground, or another Apache, or (in the future) the Kiowa can all help you get the job done from a safe position.

For the mission with the mountain cover, I would use an LOAL trajectory from behind the mountain, and then pop up at the right time to lase the target but not stay exposed the entire time.  You can also go for the SA-11's search radar and take it out, but the launchers can still track targets autonomously, if they are already pointing in the right direction.