pitch behavior

[Darcet]

is this pitch behavior intended?  As it currently is at most speeds the f1 resists going into turns resulting in this sort of rebounding behavior.  It makes for a pretty uncomfortable experience and difficult to judge turns.  attached is a gif of the behavior with a heavy turn to exaggerate the movement, but this happens at higher speeds too, but harder to convey through video.  In other modules we would expect a smooth change in turn rate as you pull like in the f-5 for example but in the f1 it seems to be wierd like this.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Darcet

[Iron Sights]

I can agree the turns are not smooth as one would expect. The MiG-21 displays some of this but not as bad. Not sure it if is related to speed and no fly by wire or an error. It would interesting to know if this just a bug or is it related to the controls at higher speeds. Seems to lessen when slow down.

[Bremspropeller]

The first part of your turn isn't a turn at all, but just an AoA excursion that happens and then makes the airplane start to change trajectory. Notice the droops coming down (droops and slats are coming down at AoA >8°). The aircraft then hesitates with that AoA established and then starts to pull through the turn.

Three things might be the cause, related or at least worth considering:

- the F1 in game actually models the "Arthur"  artificial feel system, so you sometimes have to pull more for the same result => you can switch that off in the specials menu and test it then again (Does it make the aircraft behave more like the F-5 then?)

- the F1 is aerodynamically slightly different: it has a larger effective wing-sweep (hence a flatter dCl/d@* curve) and thus will behave a bit more mushy at first, when large pitch-rates are commanded

- the F-5 is a bit more nose-heavy, so AoA excursions like in the F1 or MiG-21 aren't quite as easy, unless you have a boatload of trim

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* read 'alpha'

[Darcet]

yeah that special option did smooth it out quite a bit, we're still noticing a bit of that AoA situation going on but we'll defer to your aerodynamic explanation thanks.  It's one of those things where we wish we had the real piloting experience to understand these types of different pitch phenomenon. 

[BluTuthNinja]

I have been experieincing this a lot, especially in dogfights. 

However, whats really annoying about it, is that it happens even with steady stick pull.
What I mean is, I'll roll and start cranking the turn, the hesitation kicks in as the aoa loads the wing and starts to pull the nose around. But it'll drop my speed, and I'll let up on the stick to try and gain some speed back and smooth out the turn to settle in behind a bandit. But instead of settling into a gentle turn, the jet will pick up speed, (the jet will) pull harder aoa because of the extra energy, and slow itself back down again. Its almost impossible to set a good rate after bleeding some speed, because the jet continues to buck the moment she goes faster.

[Bremspropeller]

Define what "gaining some speed" is. You're probably running into an out of trim situation, hence the nose coming up upon acceleration. When going slow to fast, you'll first need to trim down a lot and then hitting transonic, trim up again.

The F1 is a high wing loading, low aspect ratio aircraft. Whenever you're pulling the stick, your initial response will be an increased AoA, some mush and eventually a turn. Smoothen your inputs or learn to live with this characteristic.

[BluTuthNinja]

Gaining some speed around the turn. Rate fighting an opponent. All subsonic speeds. Let's say I dip down below 350 knots because I pulled hard. When I dip the nose in the turn to start creeping speed back up, like I do in every other jet, the f.1 pitches a lot harder up. I can watch the AOA indicator bounce between green and yellow/red while I maintain the same level of pull on the stick.

[Bremspropeller]

The Arthur-simulation (check specials options) will not only have a constant stick-placement at given joystick-position, but you'll also have some kind of force-simulation.

Does the stick remain in the same position, or does it change position while accelerating with your joystick held at a constant angle?

Quote

I can watch the AOA indicator bounce between green and yellow/red while I maintain the same level of pull on the stick.

Try to fly a constant AoA rather than a constant pull.

7° AoA should give you L/Dmax (subsonic) and hence good accel through the turn. It also has the slats/ droops retract.

Edited August 6, 2023 by Bremspropeller

[BluTuthNinja]

It seems to have been the simulated force feedback. I dropped all those settings down to zero, and now it only really suffers wobbling right after a change in stick input. Its much easier to dial in a smooth turn with consistent AOA.