Aim-9 J & P uncage behaviour not the same as L & M types

[Lez]

When uncaging J and P types the seeker head position circle disappears. When achieving a sidewinder lock with caged seeker - uncaging removes the seeker circle while still receiving the higher pitch tone and missiles will track. This issue does not affect the L and M types

Tried a full dcs repair also. 

Thanks

F-15e uncage behaviour.trk

Edited June 24, 2023 by Lez

[YoYo]

On 6/24/2023 at 4:41 AM, Lez said:

When uncaging J and P types the seeker head position circle disappears. When achieving a sidewinder lock with caged seeker - uncaging removes the seeker circle while still receiving the higher pitch tone and missiles will track. This issue does not affect the L and M types

Tried a full dcs repair also. 

Thanks

F-15e uncage behaviour.trk 201.52 kB · 2 downloads

 

Noticed the same with J Today.

Pressing NWS the seeker disappears from the HUD. Looks like a bug.

Edited July 14, 2023 by YoYo

[KlarSnow]

This is correct for the 9J/P the jet does not know where the seeker head is positioned after you uncage with these missiles. And all symbology goes away. When recaged the missile is forced back to boresight. 
 

This is correct implementation and symbology for these missiles.

[YoYo]

4 hours ago, KlarSnow said:

This is correct for the 9J/P the jet does not know where the seeker head is positioned after you uncage with these missiles. And all symbology goes away. When recaged the missile is forced back to boresight. 
 

This is correct implementation and symbology for these missiles.

This would be a bit odd because visual lock on after release should follow the target on the HUD, this is important information for the pilot. I have to check how J and P behave in other DCS models. I'm not saying it isn't true, but I've never seen it disappear after detection and uncage.

[KlarSnow]

It is, and the missile has no way to transmit back to the aircraft where its seeker head is pointing, its umbilical only sends back the tone signal. So it cannot show you the seeker circle after uncage. I am directly referencing how this is described in the F-15E -34-1-1 from 1989, and the F-15C -34-1-1 from 1981 here. Its the same in both for the AIM-9J/P. They both describe that the way you assess seeker track is via the tone, and that the seeker boresight circle goes completely away after uncage. 

Think of how these missiles work in the F-5E or the Mirage F1, except you now have a full HUD and radar lock symbology and target designator. Otherwise it behaves exactly the same as in both of these jets. The USAF never integrated AIM-9P5, as that was a foreign export only system. By the time those were around the USAF had completely transitioned to AIM-9L and mostly to AIM-9M. So the J/P is very much a legacy weapon that was being phased out when the F-15E entered service.

Just checked the HAF F-16-34-1-1 and it has the same behavior for the AIM-9N/P as shown in the F-15E. Only the AIM-9P-4/5 have the seeker diamond actually represented over the target designator box. If you have that manual this is indicated on the diagram on page 1-405, figure 1-271.

The F-15E -34-1-1 dated 1989 describes all of this in the AIM-9 employment section. Page 1-133 shows the symbology for AIM-9J/P, figure 1-48.

F-15C-34-1-1 dated 1981 describes all of this also in the AIM-9 employment section. Page 1-33, figure 1-19.

The FC3 F-15C is the only other jet with a HUD in DCS that uses the AIM-9P and it incorrectly shows the seeker moving around after uncage, but its FC3 and much about how that is implemented is incorrect, since it just copies the AIM-9L/M symbology. If its an AIM-9P5 then it could potentially be correct. However USAF jets would have never carried the AIM-9P5...

Edited July 15, 2023 by KlarSnow

[YoYo]

Thx for explanation, I appreciate.