investigating locking targets with ACM boresight can result in a frozen/broken radar

[ChaosRifle]

locking a target with ACM Boresight with HMD on can sometimes give the symbology of a lock that doesn't follow the target (sits there stationary on hud/helmet), and firing on it results in missile doing nothing, as its not a valid lock.

this state is a false lock, where other actions do not always work and the radar ceases to search for targets. Particularly frustrating, as using ACM boresight is done within 10nm, which is always a time critical situation.

this state is semi-permanent until the player uses a workaround. workarounds are:
double press undesignate
cycle radar power
i think switching weapons with weapon select switch will also work past it.



system notes:
Multithreaded binary, HMD on, HMD blanking off, otherwise stock configuration of the jet from hotstart. Bug happens to cold-started jets too though.

video: https://clips.twitch.tv/SteamyHumbleJaguarRalpherZ-Ff4ItXayZTRO20c- not the best video, as I work around it pretty fast (having known this bug well for several months now) to try and secure the kill

fox1 Testing.miz

Edited October 20, 2023 by ChaosRifle
added video and mission file

[Lord Vader]

Hi @ChaosRifle

We will require a track file of what you are observing so we can analyse the events.

[ChaosRifle]

couldn't get singleplayer trackfiles as they are broken for me in 2.9. not sure why, but here is a 1v1 PvP fight showing it on a simple server. User to look at is Chaos in the hornet

dcs.log debrief.log Free Flight & Practice Novorossiysk v4.1.2-20231021-171052.trk

[Lekaa]

here is my trackfile, it's the third enemy spawn.

unable to STT HMD.trk

[Lord Vader]

@ChaosRifle I followed your track and honestly couldn't see anything serious, there were some locks that got dragged behind but it appeared to be an acceptable radial speed degradation.

@LekaaI also can't see any issues with the third engagement. You destroy the aircraft and then you move around and fire an AMRAAM against no one. What am I missing?

[ChaosRifle]

@Lord Vader I just took the time to learn how to use track files, and  watched that track file of mine back several times, that is definitely not what I saw in game but it does show the core of the issue. 3rd fight, first lock after the merge.

for me in game at the time this happened:
what I saw was a square appear denoting a lock *behind* the F16, the helmet still showed boresight symbology denoting it was trying to lock, despite claiming to have one with the box pinned in place to my hud, and when i kept pulling the stick i noticed the box for the lock was not moving at all on the hud: it was frozen, and when i kept pulling the stick, had no bearing on the outside world at all. I did correct it very fast though by exiting ACM with a double tap of undesignate (~6 months of practice against this bug )

for the track file:
What the track file shows is a square lock appearing in a totally different position of the screen (in front of the jet, instead of behind), while still showing the boresight ACM symbology (dashed line locking circle) (which itself is the issue here, it's stuck in some weird "i have a lock, but I am trying to lock" state, and the 'lock' it has is fake, its just a square pinned to your canopy, not the outside world/enemy aircraft) The lock the track file shows goes weird and off to the left where the real fight it stayed in the hud the entire time, not moving at all relative to the bandit or the world around me.



I'll keep working to find out why my SP tracks are broken but not MP ones, and try to get one where i don't undesignate it, because I know for a fact I can turn 180 and just fly 300nm away with this state (ACM boresight dashed line at the same time as a box denoting a lock, stuck on the hud, and no further radar locks can be obtained until you correct the bug by undesignating twice to exit ACM). Not sure why the track file shows something different, but it does still show the bug (though dubious how much help the track is if the data shown is not the same)

[Lord Vader]

HI again @ChaosRifle

Not only did I watch your tracks but also tried the same circumstances myself. 

You must take into account that sometimes, in certain circumstances, the target may temporarily be lost if it enters a radial velocity threshold. That's only a temporary loss and usually the target is reacquired. This has been recently tweaked to be more accurate. But if you still feel it's not correct, please do report it.

[Lekaa]

13 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

@ChaosRifle I followed your track and honestly couldn't see anything serious, there were some locks that got dragged behind but it appeared to be an acceptable radial speed degradation.

@LekaaI also can't see any issues with the third engagement. You destroy the aircraft and then you move around and fire an AMRAAM against no one. What am I missing?

The issue is the radar is trying to lock him, then it fails and it keep a false TGT which is not there, if i push on the undesignate button it will drop the False STT and will be in Rws L&S mod only, that's when i fired the shot.
Here is another example where the radar fails and it ends up in a "false" target area.

IN my first example the target was further away so it's not do do with the threshold.
 

 

merge.trk

[Lekaa]

Here is another example where the Target is further away

 

Example in a distance.trk

[Lekaa]

Here is another thing, as the author mentioned. STT does not drop. (In this case I'm using the radar). I could fly back to kutasi from Anapa and the Target is still locked, False lock.
Sometimes the lock is not false, even though i just did 360. but in this case of the demo, it was false and the Radar did not drop the lock even though i turned away.
 

 

STT does not drop even when turning 180.trk

[ChaosRifle]

10 hours ago, Lord Vader said:

You must take into account that sometimes, in certain circumstances, the target may temporarily be lost if it enters a radial velocity threshold. That's only a temporary loss and usually the target is reacquired.

what I am talking about will happen even in a straight on pass - nose to nose, ACM the guy, it breaks without either party ever turning, and you can then fly home with it stuck on hud the entire flight, and the ACM boresight will never reacquire anything you point it at.

Edited October 25, 2023 by ChaosRifle

[Lord Vader]

Hi again.

We'll be looking into your tracks and videos, passing your thoughts to the team.

Thank you for your patience.