GPU on a budget

[72westy]

On 2/10/2024 at 2:11 PM, kksnowbear said:

Uhh...that's not even an SFF machine (it's a "Mini PC"), particularly not one like the OP has asked about. Its a cube full of laptop grade hardware, which - as everyone knows - is not nearly the same as the desktop counterparts.

Buying into a proprietary design like that is just as much a mistake as buying into Dell/HPs proprietary SFFs. It's overpriced for what you get, and when you get ready later on to upgrade, you'll be SOL.

Proprietary designs in personal computing are a joke, period. Always have been, always will be. The single biggest advantage "clone" hardware brought the PC industry - compatibility- is completely lost in *any* proprietaty design, by nature.

"Small Form Factor" in this instance (per the OPs original topic) is a proper noun, not a generic description.

Yeah, sure, you can buy all sorts of "small" crap, including so-called "gaming laptops".  But all of that is way off topic here.

Nobody said you can't run DCS on a "small" machine. Mini ITX machines are small and powerful, without being proprietary like that video shows. ITX is a standardized form factor.  With SFF at least there is general industry consensus on the size, at any rate - and generally they use FlexATX power supplies (which is also a standard) and typically can house half-height expansion cards, meaning some industry-standard add in cards will fit. 

"Small" is not a standard, neither is 'small form factor', and although I'm not certain, I don't think "Mini PC" is an actual standardized form factor, either.  It matters, because if it's not an actual standard form factor, then the hardware manufacturers aren't going to make components to go in it.  Which leaves you screwed at upgrade time.

What has been said is that it's not a good idea to try upgrading one of the HP/Dell SFF machines (specifically), to run DCS.  That was the topic started by the OP.

Oh BTW LOL Desktop 3090 45% faster at 1080p...and those cute little things cost how much?  I saw $1000 on one, before taxes etc.  Great if you need something portable (I guess)...but for actual desktop gaming?  Same Better performance, save money, get a 3060  

The synthetic numbers are skewed. And as for price I picked mine (AceMagic Tank03) up on newegg for $635.XX about 4 months ago. A complete bargain. It replaced my sons MSI GL75 Leopard (10th Gen)w 1660ti

Edited Friday at 06:33 AM by 72westy

[kksnowbear]

LOL This thread is 18 months old...and it's still off topic to go on about these MiniPCs, as the OPs topic was about upgrading a proprietary SFF machine, not MiniPCs...

"Hey Guys, I was gifted a new Desk Top for Christmas. Here are the specs. HP EliteDesk 800 G5 SFF...I'm having a really hard time trying to figure out exactly which Gpu upgrade for this desktop."

But since it got brought up yet again, I'll just repeat what I already said earler:

On 2/10/2024 at 5:11 PM, kksnowbear said:

Buying into a proprietary design like that is just as much a mistake as buying into Dell/HPs proprietary SFFs. It's overpriced for what you get, and when you get ready later on to upgrade, you'll be SOL.

(...)

It matters, because if it's not an actual standard form factor, then the hardware manufacturers aren't going to make components to go in it.  Which leaves you screwed at upgrade time.

Saying "The synthetic numbers are skewed" without supporting data/proof is pointless.  Everyone knows synthetic benchmarks have limitations, but they are still fairly reliable for their intended purpose.  (That's why a lot of competent reviewers use them).

Anyone who knows anything about gaming machines understands that laptop versions of hardware are not even close to their desktop counterparts.  It's a total sham that manufacturers represent a machine as having a "4060" GPU when in reality it's a scaled-down, cut back, low-powered variant of a 4060 (or 3080, or whatever...)  And same goes for the CPUs, too.

(BTW, here's a hint:  The power supply for this ACEMAGIC TANK 03 is listed as 19V/15.79A...first of all, it's a laptop brick.  That should be enough of a giveaway.  But if we do the math, that's only a 300w PSU(!).  300W is not about to power a system based on a real desktop 4060/12900.  GPU manufacturers commonly recommend 550W PSUs for systems with 4060 GPUs.  If this runs off 300W [max] then that right there should tell you something.)

I built one of these types of machine for my wife...she wanted it because, as she said (this is a direct quote):  "It's sooooooo cuuuuuuuuuute"    

And there you have it.  Cute, cool...whatever.

So-called "gaming laptops" and these other scaled down variants of true desktop gaming machines exist for one reason, and one reason only: They're smaller.  Which in turn means they are more portable, use less power and so on.  They're not more powerful, heat is more of a problem due to the space constraints, and generally they're not cheaper than an equivalent desktop.

And that's not even the worst part.  The worst part is they're proprietary, and thus any future upgrades will be much more difficult if not impossible, and just as disproportionate in cost.

Buying one of these for 635?  I just recently built a machine for a family member, cost not including the GPU or PSU was ~375.  That's a brand new 7600X (real, not mobile), 32G DDR5-6000, cooler, 1TB NVMe SSD, OS license, etc... plus a motherboard and case which can be upgraded later, using basically any standard components.  Of course I'd need to add a GPU and a PSU sized to match, but if I'm very careful I could do it for <$700.   It's $65 more than you paid, but the difference in these two machines would be night and day, not just in performance but also in durability or so-called 'future proofing' since mine can be upgraded - more than once if need be - and could actually be turned into a top-of-the-line monster without needing another motherboard or RAM - something the miniPC cannot do, regardless.

As I already said above, small machines like the MiniPCs and 'gaming laptops' are great for someone with genuine size/weight/portability constraints (though I could argue that laptops are much more commonly lost or stolen as well, because they're smaller and more portable).

But unless there are serious, inflexible constraints involving size or weight, you're far better off sticking with standard desktop hardware for gaming.  You'll be glad you did when it's time to upgrade  

Edited 14 hours ago by kksnowbear