Su-30 flyable in lock on?

[topol-m]

Hi, some questions here:

1. Are there any su-30 mods for flaming cliffs, i`ve searched several sites and couldn`t find any? And not just a mod to fly around with it but to be able to use its armament. I`ve seen some post in the "3GO new su-27" thread saying that they are working on a su-27P model, but couldn`t find any more info. Is it going to be a flyable aircraft? Are they going to create its real cockpit too?

2. How different is Su-27P compared to the Su-27 in the game (new weapons?, cockpit?, stats?...)

I`d love to be able to fly this bird. Surely to mod the cockpit of some of the versions with led displays is not an easy task but i`m surprised the closest one to su-27 is not modded yet at least for one of the pilots, it shouldn`t be much more difficult than the Mirage for instance.

[mvsgas]

If I am not mistaken, SU-27P is the same as the SU-30, is that correct?

[Boberro]

1 - no any even quite well done - not by community fault but due of really hard LO's editable engine. Sometimes u can use Kh-29T but it's working not well (aiming is hard... very) and laser missiles whose u can aim by aim circle on HUD (= baaad accuracy) even from 5 km. U can use IIRC all TV missiles including AGM-65 and laser missiles (example Vikhrs, btw it is funny to fight them -in AA between fighters :D), but as I said accuracy is really poor in AG.

[Alfa]

Hi, some questions here:

1. Are there any su-30 mods for flaming cliffs, i`ve searched several sites and couldn`t find any? And not just a mod to fly around with it but to be able to use its armament. I`ve seen some post in the "3GO new su-27" thread saying that they are working on a su-27P model, but couldn`t find any more info. Is it going to be a flyable aircraft? Are they going to create its real cockpit too?

2. How different is Su-27P compared to the Su-27 in the game (new weapons?, cockpit?, stats?...)

I`d love to be able to fly this bird. Surely to mod the cockpit of some of the versions with led displays is not an easy task but i`m surprised the closest one to su-27 is not modded yet at least for one of the pilots, it shouldn`t be much more difficult than the Mirage for instance.

 

Some answers :) .

 

The Russian airforce operates two variants of the basic Su-27 - the Su-27P with air-to-air armament only and the Su-27S with additional unguided air-to-ground capability("dumb" bombs, clusters and rocket pods).

 

Through the evolution of the sim(Flanker to Lock-on) the Su-27 representation has shifted forth and back between the two variants - i.e. in Flanker 1.0 it was the Su-27S(with unrealistic guided A2G capability), in Flanker 2.0 it was the Su-27P, then in Flanker 2.5 it was changed to the Su-27S(with correct unguided A2G ordinance). With the transition to Lock-on it was again back to the Su-27P, but then yet again changed to the Su-27S in V1.1 FC(or maybe that was done already in V1.02...I can't remember).

 

Anyway, for 3GO's new Su-27 model we wanted make removable weapons pylons, where each weapon is paired with the appropriate launcher rack. However, while this can be done with missiles and bombs, it doesn't seem possible to make rack/weapon combinations involving rocket pods....possibly due to hardcoded salvo logics.

 

For this reason we decided to make two versions of the mod - one with the full A2A and A2G armament(Su-27S) retaining the fixed pylons and later an alternative mod with removable pylon/weapon combinations, but with air-to-air armament only(Su-27P).

 

The cockpits and systems of the two variants are virtually identical, so that is not an issue.

[czarnyolek]

When You change parameter flyable to "yes" in meinit file you get any plane controlled by human. Only thing is, this plane will have Su-27 cockpit and flight model of Su-27 imposed on chosen aircraft. As Su-30 and Su-27 are very similiar in terms of weight/trhust ratio this simple operation will give you MOD closer to reality then most of other mods for LO. You can use than AG weapons with some limitations, as Bobberos said before, and cockpit will be still Su-27.

I agree with you, that Su-30 is so much better looking than Su-27.:pilotfly:

[Alfa]

About the Su-30

 

The Su-30 was initially called "Su-27PU" and was a dedicated interceptor variant with air-to-air only armament - i.e. really just a two-seat version of the above mentioned Su-27P.

 

It differed from the basic two-seat Su-27UB "combat trainer" version by having a retractable inflight refuelling probe, a CRT display for the rear seat crew member and some additional datalinking capability allowing it to act as "mini AWACS" or "mission controller" for a flight of single seat Su-27Ps.

 

Later a multirole variant of the Su-30(Su-30MK) was offered for export, where the configuration could be tailored for the specific requirements of the customer country - for this reason the resulting aircraft were very divers and to reflect this given designation suffixes denoting the country in question(Su-30MKI for India, Su-30MKK for China etc.).

 

The bottom line is that aside from the initial interceptor variant I mentioned to begin with, "Su-30" is a very diffuse term that cannot be applied to a particular aircraft type - e.g. the Su-30MKI is totally different to the Chinese Su-30MKK.

 

The Su-30 as depicted in Lock-on is something of a "bastard" - visually(cockpit layouts) it resembles the earlier mentioned pure interceptor variant, but given loadout capabilities closer to the Su-30MKK or Su-30KN(upgrade proposal for the Russian airforce).

 

Anyway, in Lock-on FC you can make the Su-30 flyable simply by editing the Meinit.xml and change the parameter: "HumanCockpit = no" to "yes". You will get the player cockpit environment and systems of the Su-27 for it, but then these do not differ much from the those of the old Su-30, so IMO its not too big a stretch realism wise.....at least not if you also remove the guided air-to-ground ordiance from the entry :) .

[Alfa]

When You change parameter flyable to "yes" in meinit file you get any plane controlled by human. Only thing is, this plane will have Su-27 cockpit and flight model of Su-27 imposed on chosen aircraft. As Su-30 and Su-27 are very similiar in terms of weight/trhust ratio this simple operation will give you MOD closer to reality then most of other mods for LO. You can use than AG weapons with some limitations, as Bobberos said before, and cockpit will be still Su-27.

I agree with you, that Su-30 is so much better looking than Su-27.:pilotfly:

 

Yup - a little slow with my second post there I see :D .

[104th_Crunch]

Hey Alfa, Can you tell please if you know what versions of the Su-27 carry the R-77? Thanks

[topol-m]

Thanks guys for the replies. It seems not very easy now to create an overall realistic model of the su-30MK/MKI/MKK at least not through modding. I`m still hoping we get one of these beauties in some future expansion of DCS. Heаr me, God...

[Alfa]

Hey Alfa, Can you tell please if you know what versions of the Su-27 carry the R-77? Thanks

 

Only the ones that were upgraded for it - Su-27SM and Su-27UBM.

 

But there are a number of other Flanker variants(really also Su-27 versions) that were designed to use the R-77(well RVV-AE rather) from the outset - apart from the Su-30MK exports I mentioned earlier, there is the Su-35(Su-27M) as well as the Su-34(Su-27IB) fighter bomber.

 

I may be easier to mention the ones that aren't compatible with the RVV-AE - which would be the Su-27P, Su-27S(SK), Su-27UB, Su-27K(Su-33) and Su-27PU(Su-30) :) .

[Boberro]

But how many does Russia have these R-77s?

 

I heard not many is it true ?.... and they wanna replace them with next missile which they don't have now.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Boberro

[Alfa]

I doubt they have any ;) .

 

The "R-77" was supposed to be the Soviet era next generation missile, but with the collapse of the Soviet Union it seems the development stalled.

 

As I understand it, the RVV-AE developed since then is an R-77 intended for export and using components of foreign origin - which at least until recently made the weapon a "no-go" for domestic use with the Russian forces due to some rather strict laws conerning military imports.

 

But there is something to suggest that these restrictions might have been eased somewhat - it wouldn't make much sense to upgrade Russian Su-27s and MiG-29s with the ability to deploy the RVV-AE missile, if the law bans it from being used :) .

[topol-m]

It might be so, but i doubt they will arm the su-35 and su-34 with the old R-27 when they enter mass production. They will probably will use R-77RVV-AE-PD.