STECS Second Impressions

[Raisuli]

I bought a STECS Mini last year to replace my old Warthog throttle and in December I rebuilt my simpit from the ground up around the new throttle.  Now that I have a few hours, for very large values of 'few' under my belt I thought I'd pass on my impressions.

First, and most important, it was a worthwhile trade.  No, it's not modeled after anything 'real', but neither is the rest of my simpit.  Flying a steam gauge Cessna 172 with a STECS throttle and a stick with an equivalent control density (not VKB, so not talking much about that) means I can even change the 8 track tape with HOTAS controls.  Some of the controls haven't found a use yet, but knowing they're there, and as I get used to the new simpit, I keep adding new commands to the throttle and promptly forget where I mapped them.  Someone (*cough* VKB *cough*) needs to create a control mapping graphic.

Of course...new throttle, old muscle memory goes in the dumpster.  It took a while to get formations (A2AR) working without constantly hunting for the right speeds.  It didn't help that the stick throw and position also changed, so it was a little like re-learning how to fly.  Not that I was much good at that to begin with.  The other nice thing is the throttle handles fit my hand pretty nicely, and I can get to everything without any difficulty.  I do need to shift my hand a bit to get a couple controls, but on the whole the ergonomics are good.  I was pleasantly surprised to find out those aft paddle switches don't get in the way, so as long as I'm not sloppy about my grip they can be safely used for whatever needs done. 

At the risk of breaking rules I use this with other simulators, and it's been very nice to have all those options available.

Now we get to the parts that I struggle with.

1. That thumb mounted TDC makes me crazy. 

This is due in part to the hyper-sensitivity of several DCS modules to TDC movement.  Tossing that cursor around is like playing 'where's Waldo', and it goes from edge to edge with not much more deflection than a heartbeat (1/2 MOA at 100m).  I've changed the curves, but thumb control, particularly when the throttle is forward and directional control changes, is a pain.  To help with this I mapped one of the forward 5-way switches to also be a TDC.  Now I can quick-tap the direction I want to go and it's only the module over-sensitivity causing problems.

Unfortunately it's really hard to press one of those 5 way switches and move the TDC at the same time, so I find myself pushing one button and moving the TDC with the other control.  In general, clunky and hard to work with.  If it wasn't otherwise a worthwhile trade this one thing would put the Warthog back in play, especially since TDC now uses two of the controls rather than the one.  They seriously need to consider a module to replace a forward 5 way with an axis and software to make the axis a switch.  For me the thumb axis was a bad call on VKBs part.

2. Detents

Cool idea.  I use black for aircraft sorely lacking afterburners (the KA-50 really needs one) and blue for real airplanes.  Originally I used a second detent for idle/cutoff, but the travel arc on the throttle is pretty limited, and with both detents the difference between idle and afterburner is tight; fine throttle control is difficult because very small changes in position result in proportionally larger changes in thrust.  I pretty quickly took the idle cutoff off the throttle and use a pair of toggles on a controller to handle that bit.  I don't spend a lot of time using that detent anyway.

Changing the detent frames on the fly is easy, but changing curves is easier since most of the aircraft I fly kick in the AB at about the same place on the throttle, so I have three that haven't found a use yet.  That might change, and having the option is pretty nice.

3. Friction

I like my throttles pretty soft and smooth.  With the STECS if I dial the friction down the throttles will move on their own from the weight of the handles; with power down to land or taxi, for example, the throttle handles will fall to idle on their own.  That means it's a little stiffer than I like, and something about the feel is...off.  Not sure how to describe it, but as the throttles move they don't have that crisp feel I got used to with the Warthog; that might be due to the higher friction level though.

4. Minor Gripes from a pit builder

The base isn't quite flat, so if you mount to a flat plate you'll need washers under the corner screws to keep it flat without putting strain on the case.  The USB cable comes out right over the top of one of those screws; the holes are countersunk, but there's no clearance for a screw head under the USB...make your heads flat!  I ended up using a 90 degree USB-B cable to connect it so the throttle bay isn't much deeper than the throttle.  Saved a lot of space from from the huge Warthog bay.

They don't give you any dimensions for the base; I called support and was told they build these things with no engineering drawings at all; I guess they just whittle a block of plastic until it fits.  I got lucky and nailed the throttle opening on my try, though.  Nice to have the right tools.

Overall?  I really like it.  There was some concern when I bought it because I don't really need a lot of high-priced flight control hardware on shelves and I don't get trial models to review, so it was a pleasant surprise when this lived up to the hype.  Because I have a simpit I don't need a bunch of controls on my throttles, which kept me away from some of the others.  This is a throttle, with plenty of HOTAS controls to do whatever needs done on whichever airfame I happen to be in, and none of the other stuff that might be needed if I played on a desk or was a little less OCD about control panels.

 

[AeroGator]

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[okopanja]

On 2/16/2024 at 5:49 PM, Raisuli said:

I use black for aircraft sorely lacking afterburners (the KA-50 really needs one) and blue for real airplanes.

I found out yesterday that you do not even need the adapter. Also, it is possible to have more detent sets than five. Got from ther discord following advice: note you can set detent sets 6-10 only from AP.

Quote

Add this to your zconfig.ini file, below the [User] heading

PimpMySTECS=1

 

[virgo47]

I've used it for 7 months and I understand all those points mentioned in the OP. I don't need to mount it, but I also wondered about the screw hole under the USB connector, although you can unplug and plug it... Now the main points:

1. OTS - it's far from perfect, but to my surprise, I got used to the thumb. But I wish it was easier to move from the center and progressively harder towards the ends. This one is kinda harder to start moving and then it goes easily runaway. This is even more so when moving the thumb "sideways" (physically up/down, but logically I map this to side, of course) - because there is even less control in that thumb move. Back and forth (up/down logically) is fine, plenty of control in the muscles. But the move action is way too loose. And with that, I don't even use OTS press to lock, for that I use one of the front triggers, so I don't accidentally move the OTS.
   And please, VKB, give us some dish shape. This cone is not bad, but it's far from good. Just for fun I tried the rubberized red button from WEAPON SELECT and it was MUCH better. (But of course it doesn't cover the hole and I miss the piece on WEAPON SELECT position.)
2. Detents are great, I use mostly one, but I have one "universal" IDLE+AB combo, still reasonable amount of throttle is left, as I mounted the IDLE as low as possible and also used narrower V detent. I didn't like low (regular) L detent for idle, because it's easy to overcome, and "large" L detent is extremely difficult to overcome in idle configuration, as it goes really against the springed rollers. I'll not try it, but I don't believe it wouldn't break eventually after many cycles. Large V works much better as IDLE for me, and the throttle can start lower than with the L shape.
   Three detents seem silly to me, not with these quite wide detents (W and L both take 18-19% of the throttle range). I'd welcome some subtle version of W, something that doesn't push the throttle away and the center notch is just a small groove, just to feel it and hold the throttle with minimal force. This would be a great detent that would not have to be configured and great for things like "nominal power".
   I use DCS curves to set the actual AB position for planes where the physical AB doesn't match the logical one. No problem.
3. You're using even less friction than me. I had problems on the top end, especially the right grip is heavy. I'd also like to use less friction, but it is what it is and this throttle must be pretty tight. Not sure what can be done about it mechanically, perhaps some counterweight, but for that there is no room - otherwise the unit would have to be much higher, I guess.

Overall? I also like it. I only talked about the points from OP, so I'll not open "grip encoder-vs-axis" problems and other possible improvements as there are plenty and it would be a different product. We'll see what VKB comes with. I wish they'd give us more grip options in the future (e.g. the right one with OTS on the index finger or the left one with axes options).

Edited April 30, 2024 by virgo47

[okopanja]

BTW: some things I do not like on STECS:

- white button next to modal switch (used combined with modal to change profile) is membrane based and produce rather ugly sound.

- I do not understand why the detent set has to force the reload of whole device. Would be nice to know technical reason for this and if this can be done without reboot of device.

[Raisuli]

5 hours ago, virgo47 said:

I've used it for 7 months and I understand all those points mentioned in the OP. I don't need to mount it, but I also wondered about the screw hole under the USB connector, although you can unplug and plug it... Now the main points:

1. OTS - it's far from perfect, but to my surprise, I got used to the thumb. But I wish it was easier to move from the center and progressively harder towards the ends. This one is kinda harder to start moving and then it goes easily runaway. This is even more so when moving the thumb "sideways" (physically up/down, but logically I map this to side, of course) - because there is even less control in that thumb move. Back and forth (up/down logically) is fine, plenty of control in the muscles. But the move action is way too loose. And with that, I don't even use OTS press to lock, for that I use one of the front triggers, so I don't accidentally move the OTS.
   And please, VKB, give us some dish shape. This cone is not bad, but it's far from good. Just for fun I tried the rubberized red button from WEAPON SELECT and it was MUCH better. (But of course it doesn't cover the hole and I miss the piece on WEAPON SELECT position.)

 

I 3D printed some alternates, and of course I can't remember where I got the file to print that, but it was around here somewhere.  Made a world of difference along with something like 40 curves.  Now I can manage that beastly bit of user-hostile design! 

2 hours ago, okopanja said:

BTW: some things I do not like on STECS:

- white button next to modal switch (used combined with modal to change profile) is membrane based and produce rather ugly sound.

- I do not understand why the detent set has to force the reload of whole device. Would be nice to know technical reason for this and if this can be done without reboot of device.

You're reloading the configuration file, which means a new driver if I understand the process correctly.  If it's set to a profile with detents the red light will come on in the right places even if that center is empty; the bearings are just there for friction.

 

The part that gets me is the whole thing will die on occasion, which means removing the cover (easy), unplugging the USB (easy), replacing USB (easy) and replacing the cover (easy).  It's all easy, but very annoying!  Particularly when I don't notice the throttle is dead until you want to taxi somewhere, or worse, on an air start...

[virgo47]

4 hours ago, Raisuli said:

[Ad OTS] I 3D printed some alternates, and of course I can't remember where I got the file to print that, but it was around here somewhere.  Made a world of difference along with something like 40 curves.  Now I can manage that beastly bit of user-hostile design! 

I don't have a 3D printer (yet) and somehow I manage. The worst part is the resistance... it should be progressively higher away from the center, not like now that it kinda "snaps" and then it moves easily. Yeah, I exaggerate a bit - but really, only a bit.

I also use curves for TDC in DCS, but that's another problem, because in DCS you need some minimal value (around 10) to get the TDC moving. So to make it move slowly from the get-go (right after you move it off center) you need to add user curve with a steep step at the start, then a smoother one later, and also probably some saturation as the max speed of TDC is often too fast (at least in FC3).

All that said, it's not worse than the TDC on the TWCS... but it's not that much better really. (Index vs thumb issue aside, one can really train it for the thumb.)

[Raisuli]

5 hours ago, virgo47 said:

I don't have a 3D printer (yet) and somehow I manage. The worst part is the resistance... it should be progressively higher away from the center, not like now that it kinda "snaps" and then it moves easily. Yeah, I exaggerate a bit - but really, only a bit.

I also use curves for TDC in DCS, but that's another problem, because in DCS you need some minimal value (around 10) to get the TDC moving. So to make it move slowly from the get-go (right after you move it off center) you need to add user curve with a steep step at the start, then a smoother one later, and also probably some saturation as the max speed of TDC is often too fast (at least in FC3).

All that said, it's not worse than the TDC on the TWCS... but it's not that much better really. (Index vs thumb issue aside, one can really train it for the thumb.)

Oh.  Yeah.  I got the upgrade for the Warthog TDC and forgot just how bad the original is.

Totally agree the thumb TDC implementation is a bit unfortunate; all kinds of problems that didn't need to happen.  They could have provided alternate caps for that like they did everything else, or make using one of the front controls an option, or...

It's almost like they put that on the board and never gave it another thought

In other news one of my five way switches isn't.  Not convinced it's worth the shipping costs to fix, but if I put that in place of the three way all kinds of weirdness happens.

<edit>That 5-way worked great when I put it in right, not a VKB thing, a me thing, and I don't want to blame them for something that's got to be user error! </edit>

Edited April 30, 2024 by Raisuli

[AlpineGTA]

2 hours ago, Raisuli said:

In other news one of my five way switches isn't.  Not convinced it's worth the shipping costs to fix, but if I put that in place of the three way all kinds of weirdness happens.

Have you re-initialized it after changing the button modules? There's a button combination you have to press in order for the new button layout to be recognized.

 

[Raisuli]

2 hours ago, AlpineGTA said:

Have you re-initialized it after changing the button modules? There's a button combination you have to press in order for the new button layout to be recognized.

 

Yup, and I had the post written about how I followed that video to the absolute letter.  Twice.  Then I decided to try again, because...I've been around long enough to know what 'to the letter' is worth.

Not that I'm an incompetent goober or anything, but I pretty obviously failed to follow one or another pretty simple instruction.  It works perfectly now.