AI P-47D's climb with way too much Manifold Pressure

[Mav87th]

Hi ED

 

First of all THANKS for a brilliant aircraft. I simply love to fly the P-47D you have created.

I would though like to be able to fly as a wingman to AI for larger missions/campaigns, which is difficult as the AI pilots climb rate is over the top. They seem to fly with a very unrealistic power setting.

 

You properly know the numbers for maximum sustained flight (which would be used for a max rate climb over a longer distance or period. But anyway here are the numbers that should be used...

RPM 2700

52 mm HG in manifold pressure

Mixture Auto Rich

Speed:

165 mph @ seaLevel up to 10.000 ft. giving 2050 ft./min
160 kts. @ 15.000 ft. giving 1400 ft./min
155 kts. @ 20.000 ft. giving 1250 ft./min
150 kts. @ 25.000 ft. giving 1050 ft./min

I have read, that the AI climb speed is hardwired, and can see in the P-51D .lua file, that the P-51D has the following attribute.

Vy_max          = 22, -- Max climb speed in m/s (for AI)

Vy implying that its the y axis, vertical i presume, so converting this to ft./min. it would be close to 4330 ft./min

The .lua file of the P-47D however is not readable (encoded i presume), so i can't do some test and error with it.

 

Therefore i lay my hopes with you guys to see if you can lower this speed to something in the range of the climb rate that you get in the Jug with the above Max Continous climb. And that is in the range of 1500~2000 ft./min.

I tested a couple of times and my average climbrate to 25.000 ft. at 14.000 lbs gross weight at takeoff was 12 min ~ roughly 2080 ft./min. which should see the Vy max value to be set to 11 for the jug.

 

PLEASE

[MadKreator]

I will 100% agree with this. Playing Reflected’s p-47 campaign it is hard enough to keep up with the rest if the flight, but as soon as the AI starts climbing they just pull away with seemingly no loss in power and it takes every  bit of distance across the Channel and beyond to catch up. Even with perfect manifold pressure, boost,  max prop speed, perfect rudder trim and well tuned mixture…here I am with no chance of keeping up with them lol 

Edited February 22 by MadKreator

[Iron Sights]

I would live to be able to hop into the cockpit of one of these AI planes see the performance values. However, I don’t think the limitations the player has applies to the AI aircraft. While I do think it’s getting better, it still has a ways to go, especially on the WWII aircraft.

[BuzzJob]

AI ‘47’s pull away even when you turn off engine realism and run at WEP continuously. 

Do a Normandy airfield raid - when flight lead declares RTB you need a F-86 to keep up.  I’d like to fly formation with the group on the trip home. 

Edited February 22 by BuzzJob

[Mav87th]

I would just love a decompiled version of the P-47D lua file so we could tinker with the AI max climb value...

 

I managed to look into the file without decompiling it via www.luac.nl and here its clear that the Vy_max value is set to 22 (m/s y axis presumably) wich is the same as the P-51. So i'm going to experiment flying on the wing of a climbing P-51D to see if that is the same, and if one can adjust that value to a more belivable climbrate adjustment.null

Edited February 22 by Mav87th

[BuzzJob]

Awesome!  The max_mach at .76 seems a bit ambitious -> 583 mph

[Mav87th]

Actually thats not too shabby - its 300 MPH IAS at 35000....easy obtained in a shallow dive. I assume that the AI will use it as a guide to stay below that mach number

 

        CAS_min         = 56, -- if this is not OVERALL FLIGHT TIME, but just LOITER TIME, than it should be 10-15 minutes.....CAS capability in minute (for AI)
        V_opt           = 125,-- Cruise speed (for AI)
        V_take_off      = 53, -- Take off speed in m/s (for AI)
        V_land          = 50, -- Land speed in m/s (for AI)
        V_max_sea_level = 250, -- Max speed at sea level in m/s (for AI)
        V_max_h         = 212, -- Max speed at max altitude in m/s (for AI)
        Vy_max          = 22, -- Max climb speed in m/s (for AI)
        Mach_max        = 0.8, -- Max speed in Mach (for AI)
        Ny_min          = -4.0, -- Min G (for AI)
        Ny_max          = 8.0,  -- Max G (for AI)
        Ny_max_e        = 8.0,  -- Max G (for AI)
        AOA_take_off    = 0.14, -- AoA in take off (for AI)
        bank_angle_max  = 60.0, -- Max bank angle (for AI)

Above is from the P-15D lua file - it has better explanations to each constant.

 

Next test is to try to make a Mission with a P-15D AI par that takes off, and then climbs out towards a rendevouz point. Then its possible to edit the P-51 lua files Vy_max constant and retest if that helps.

Edited February 24 by Mav87th

[Mav87th]

So i did a couple of climb tests with AI (P-47D-30) and my self in a player aircraft. Attached is the mission file, so you can try your self.

 

I then copied the AI flights track and altered the speed/time settings of the steerpoints, so now there are two AI flights, one called "Fixed Time" and one called "GS" obviously for GroundSpeed as this flights waypoints are set to groundspeed, while the original flight is Fixed Time set on the wayponts.

Observations:

Fixed Time flight flyes the obviously most correct flightpath while the GS flight does not originally start the climb, but comes up to altitude a little delayed.

 

The ACMI file and an exported telemetry file is attached as well as the mission it self. You can simply spawn in the player aircraft and then F2 the flight of the AI's, or alternatively climb up with them. 

Tacview-20240302-114357-DCS-Climb-Test_P-47D-30.csv Tacview-20240302-114357-DCS-Climb-Test_P-47D-30.zip.acmi Climb-Test_P-47D-30.miz

[Mav87th]

On 2/22/2024 at 4:59 AM, Iron Sights said:

I would live to be able to hop into the cockpit of one of these AI planes see the performance values. However, I don’t think the limitations the player has applies to the AI aircraft. While I do think it’s getting better, it still has a ways to go, especially on the WWII aircraft.

Check above for the TacView stuff - kinda helps a little

[BuzzJob]

Thank you very much for this!  Will install tonight.